The STAX 404 LE Thread

[charliex]

I was surprised that even though there are fleeting references to Stax's new flagship in the Lambda line, there isn't a dedicated thread to these marvels.
My pair just came in a couple of days ago, and between my also recently purchased AKG K1000 / SAC K 1000, I haven't had much sleep, since I've
been on that 'tired' old colloquial "cloud 9".
I am not a the best in when it comes to writing my audio observations as I'm still relatively new to Head-Fi and the art/science/philosopny of headfonia.
But here is a quick and brief review of what I now consider my Stax bellwether:
 
Before packaging up my 404's (that I dearly love, and was quite hesitant to put up for sale), I just finished doing an A-B comparison side by side off my Stax T-1 amp.
The differences are indeed significant (I no longer am stressed about the sale of my 404s). 
The 404LEs definitely have that 'wow factor' in comparison.  The bass is more in terms of quantity and quality - tighter, more controlled and more satisfying.  They have supreme resolution, more body in the low and mid-range and lack the upper mid/lower treble spike of the 404s and are more musical, yet still smooth and energetic.  Far less etched than the 404 sigs or any others in that line.  These are truly in another class compared to the Lambda line and are what the 404 signatures should have been. 
Cosmetically, they do have the leather pads which are much much more comfortable for long listening sessions, and are noticeably thinner than the 404 pads (perhaps adding to the bass impact).  The cable is very different (a copper silver hybrid) and wider and heavier than the 404 cable.  Even the build quality seems beefier and more sturdy.
Overall, these are definitely a vast improvement to the 202/303/404 line producing a sound that is more fullbodied throughout the frequency range with more bass presence that is weightier and with more punch.  They have a slightly improved soundstage and are more forward, musical and smooth.  
Next comparison is when I run them through my SRD-7 Mk2 and Technics SU/V5 Class A amp, and then through my SAC/AKG K100 amp for comparison.
If you come across a pair of the 404LE's - grab em!
 
Let's hear YOUR take on the 404LE's !

 

[Vitor Teixeira]

Do you think there's much difference between the "regular" 404 and the 404 LE?
Iv'e seen a good deal on elusivedisk.com for a 404 demo unit and i'm tempted...no amp though..(out of stock)
Any feedback on elusivedisk?
 
(i think i got some kind of virus, i've heard yesterday for the first time in my life a stax earspeaker, and i'm completely in loved )
IT'S THE LOVE VIRUS!!

 

[TheAttorney]

Around 3 years ago, I upgraded my 404 signature to an O2 - almost entirely because I could not get on with the signature's upper mid peak. It seems like the LE does not have that issue and, had the LE been around then, I probably would have gone for that (not that I'm complaining about the O2 in any way).
 
Now, some people don't mind that upper mid peak and some make actually prefer that extra sense of clarity it APPEARS to give. But based on the LE comments so far, it's a no brainer to choose the LE over the signature. I've not heard the standard 404, so can't say if that has the same upper mid issue as the signature.

 

[Vitor Teixeira]

Hi and thanks for your answer!
Can you tell me a reliable UK online reseller on Stax combos?
Like i said yesterday i went to a local retailer, but the price, oh my God!! the price...they were trying to rob me that's for sure.
A pair of SR-404 + SR-006 amp would cost me around 2000€, yes you've heard me 2000€!!!

 

[charliex]

Quote:

Hi and thanks for your answer!
Can you tell me a reliable UK online reseller on Stax combos?
Like i said yesterday i went to a local retailer, but the price, oh my God!! the price...they were trying to rob me that's for sure.
A pair of SR-404 + SR-006 amp would cost me around 2000€, yes you've heard me 2000€!!!

2000 Euro = $2600US - geez, that is highway robbery.  Elusive disc sells the set for $1000 less and a used system on Head-Fi can be had for half what your local retailer tried to scam you.

 

[Vitor Teixeira]

Don't see any combo on elusivedisc, neither the 404, only a demo unit, and the amp is also out of stock...
Any other option?
 
(where did you bought your 404LE?)

 

[TheAttorney]

Quote:

Can you tell me a reliable UK online reseller on Stax combos?
Like i said yesterday i went to a local retailer, but the price, oh my God!! the price...they were trying to rob me that's for sure.
A pair of SR-404 + SR-006 amp would cost me around 2000€, yes you've heard me 2000€!!!

Here is a dealer that I can recommend - that MIGHT do online sales. But the dealers that I'm familiar with are high end, which means: (a) They'll probably charge full list price (and give full customer service and aftercare) (b) they don't tend to do online sales in the sense of shopping basket styles (c) they may not like selling to a different country which has an official stax dealer - i.e. stepping on the toes of the other country's stax network.
 
Anyway, here is  link to that site, which will at least give an idea of prices. They don't list an LE though.
 
http://www.highendcable.co.uk/STAX%204040.htm
 

 

[edstrelow]

CHARLIEX, Can you give us any more impressions of the difference betwen the 404 and 404LE?    It would be nice to pin down the sonic changes between these two.  Since they are fundamentally the same basic phone, it would seem that the sound differences are due to 1)  the thinner leather earpad, 2) the cable, or 3) the more solid construction ( as you did mention that the build quality was more sturdy).  All of these could affect the sound quality. 
 
Some have also suggested that Stax changed the construction of the drivers, but certainly Stax does not say this and if so the could easiyl incorporate this change into the new 404's.
 
My take on the Lambda line is that the foam behind the drivers messes up the sound.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/443060/is-the-stax-lambda-signature-supposed-to-be-damped-on-second-thought-ditch-the-foam-backing-on-all-the-lambdas
 
So it it seems  possible to me that Stax modified the foam backing on the LE as well.   Of course I would be curious to know if there is still a foam backing on the LE or whether it is more acoustically transparent than on the 404.
 
If the ear-pad thickness is  a factor, that may be adjusted on other Lambdas. I recall that there is a non-OEM maker of Stax pads which are thinner that the regulars.
 
If a big factor is the cable, that would be very interesting indeed since the 404 shares this cable with the 02 and it would indicate that even the 02 could stand a cable refit.

 

[reiserFS]

So where can one still source a SR-404 LE? PriceJapan tells me that they're not longer in production.

 

[Solude]

One up for sale in the headphone sale forum... unless it got snagged.

 

[jjinh]

Quote:

Around 3 years ago, I upgraded my 404 signature to an O2 - almost entirely because I could not get on with the signature's upper mid peak. It seems like the LE does not have that issue and, had the LE been around then, I probably would have gone for that (not that I'm complaining about the O2 in any way).
 
Now, some people don't mind that upper mid peak and some make actually prefer that extra sense of clarity it APPEARS to give. But based on the LE comments so far, it's a no brainer to choose the LE over the signature. I've not heard the standard 404, so can't say if that has the same upper mid issue as the signature.

 
The 404 is the 404 Signature
 
Quote:

So where can one still source a SR-404 LE? PriceJapan tells me that they're not longer in production.

404LE, i.e. they're limited edition. Production of the 1000 units finished about a year ago so you'd need to look for a used one.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

 
The 404 is the 404 Signature
 

404LE, i.e. they're limited edition. Production of the 1000 units finished about a year ago so you'd need to look for a used one.

In these forums the term Signature usually refers to the first Lambda Signature, followed I believe by the LNS (Lambda Nova Signature)  Then the standard 404 is also designated Signature by Stax but usually just described as 404.

 

[jjinh]

Yeah I'm reasonably familiar with the terminology.
 
TheAttorney was saying he had heard what he called the "404 signature" but not the "standard 404". I was just commenting I believe they're the same thing.  
 

 

[charliex]

First - 404 signature IS the same as the SR-404.  The box that the SR-404 comes in from Stax has SIGNATURE fully embazoned on the cover.
Second -  I am by no means an expert in terms of listening for nor describing the finer and more difficult to detect nuances in sound signature.
My initial description at at the beginning of the thread I believe clearly identifies the major differences between the 404 and the 404LE since I am
able to A-B them together from the two pro outputs found on my Stax SRM-T1.  I did have the Stax Sr-SC1 Airbow for awhile (a cryo treated 404),
and if memory serves me well, they were similar to the 404LE and also a definite improvement to the regular 404.   Believe me, I had a hard time
putting my SR-404's up for sale (a sale that lasted less than an hour), and finally capitulated after a few hours of A-Bing the two headphones
together and recognizing that fiscally I can really only justify one pair and that the 404LE is indeed significantly and noticeably better than
the standard 404. 
Not only are the 404LE's very hard-to-find due to their limited run of a thousand sets, but I have also noticed that the regular 404's are also
getting hard to find ...... if only I had kept the Airbow's.also......sigh

 

[jjinh]

Why'd you sell your Airbows, and why didnt you sell them to me?