SOURCES DO MATTER!!!

[HeatFan12]

I wanted to share a few thoughts in reference to finding perfect synergy with sources.
Before today (precisely an hour ago), I thought that as long as you have a source and it is being fed a digital signal via an external DAC, the sound should be overall similar or at least in the same ballpark with different variations in sound...it's digital I told myself...digital is digital right?...Oh how wrong I was....
Sequence of events:
I received the Beresford TC-7510 today (my 3rd DAC) and I purchased it to throw into my speaker (stereo) setup (Yamaha RX-460 receiver, Sony CDP CE335, Polk Audio speakers w/ sub (purchased 15 years ago before Polk went mainstream)...
I connected the receiver to the DAC with a Blue Jeans Cable (RCA) and went optical with the CDP from the DAC...I held my breath and turned it all on expecting to hear music in a way that I had never heard before...expected my Polks to talk to me like they never have before.....
When the sound came through, I thought I had connected something wrong because what I was hearing was the same as it was before the DAC...Needless to say, everything sounded good...But it sounded good before, but I wanted to make it better....Is that not what we do?
So, I immediately cursed the DAC and started looking for the packaging so I could send it back and get my $$...
I felt I needed a beer at this point (Heineken always hits the spot)...As I was walking to the kitchen I noticed the RCA DVD player (RC5240P) that we have in the computer room (bought about 4 years ago) and I felt the need to do something...I turned it around saw the optical and coax and immediately unplugged it and went back, removed my CDP and inserted the DVD player via optical to the DAC....cranked everything up in a desperate motion to see what would happen...I did not expect too much at this point....When the music started playing, I nearly fell back on the bed...I wish I could say it was like day and night compared to the CDP.....But I can't because the sound difference was not even in the same week.....Everything was so detailed..highs, lows, mids...I mean everything....My Polks were saying "aren't you glad you bought me back in 1991"..I never knew they had that potential....
Here I am getting ready to pack the DAC to send it back and a simple change in setup made that much difference....
Sorry for the long post but I really needed to get this out.....
I have to go now, the wife wants to watch a movie in the other room and she's wondering where the DVD player is....OH well...
Thanks for reading...
Jesse

 

[Ampersand]

So you're saying the RCA dvd player made a better transport than a Sony dedicated cd player??

 

[Gone4T]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 ....When the music started playing, I nearly fell back on the bed...I wish I could say it was like day and night compared to the CDP.....But I can't because the sound difference was not even in the same week.....Everything was so detailed..highs, lows, mids...I mean everything....My Polks were saying "aren't you glad you bought me back in 1991"..I never knew they had that potential......

Jesse,

Nice post and very pleased you have joined the club, one thing I have noticed is that the Beresford TC-7510 gets even better after a couple of hundred hours and can give an extraordinary performance when paired with the 'right' source.


Photos c/o smartins and others.

 

[regal]

If you really want to hear something bad connect the digital input of your DAC to one of these cheap "bitperfect" soundcards. You will not believe how bad a digital source can be.

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

So you're saying the RCA dvd player made a better transport than a Sony dedicated cd player??

That is correct...I knew the CDP was pretty decent coming out of the speakers itself...I mean it never really sounded bad.....HOWEVER, I never really had anything to compare it to when it came to speakers....
That is the beauty of all this.....YOU JUST NEVER KNOW, UNTIL YOU TRY IT.....Trial and error is a wonderful thing...
Jes

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

Jesse, Nice post and very pleased you have joined the club, one thing I have noticed is that the Beresford TC-7510 gets even better after a couple of hundred hours and can give an extraordinary performance when paired with the 'right' source.

Thanks Gone4T...I had read about how important burn-in was with the Beresford, so I thought that was the initial problem...I'm glad I stuck it out...

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 That is correct...I knew the CDP was pretty decent coming out of the speakers itself...I mean it never really sounded bad.....HOWEVER, I never really had anything to compare it to when it came to speakers.... That is the beauty of all this.....YOU JUST NEVER KNOW, UNTIL YOU TRY IT.....Trial and error is a wonderful thing... Jes

Interesting, I use a humble DVD player (Phillips DVP642) as my transport into an Entech 203.2 and I find it works extremely well, well enough for me to flog off my NAD CD player and get a DAP with the proceeds

 

[Davesrose]

Actually, I have that Phillips DVD player. I also have a Sony CDP (CE345). Actually, just picked up the CD595 for SACD. Well I experimented putting them through my current DAC (will be getting a dedicated one soon, but now I'm using my HK reciever). Both Sonys sound identical (which on my system seems pretty good). I had noticed a difference in sound on my surround system between DVD players (using digital out even, some would sound fuller then others). Well my verdict is that my Sony CDPs are better then my DVD players as CD transports (have a Samsung upconvert and the philips). With both DVD players, there's a noticable rolloff in treble. Both Sony's are identical.....pretty full sound on my system.

Wonder if all of this is going to change when I get that DAC!!!!

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose Actually, I have that Phillips DVD player. I also have a Sony CDP (CE345). Actually, just picked up the CD595 for SACD. Well I experimented putting them through my current DAC (will be getting a dedicated one soon, but now I'm using my HK reciever). Both Sonys sound identical (which on my system seems pretty good). I had noticed a difference in sound on my surround system between DVD players (using digital out even, some would sound fuller then others). Well my verdict is that my Sony CDPs are better then my DVD players as CD transports (have a Samsung upconvert and the philips). With both DVD players, there's a noticable rolloff in treble. Both Sony's are identical.....pretty full sound on my system. Wonder if all of this is going to change when I get that DAC!!!!

Davesrose, I believe you are eyeing that Zhaolu 2.5...I have it and feed it to the CE595 and use the built-in discrete amp and I am very happy with it with low impedance cans...
The TC 7510 was bought for my stereo setup...With all the inputs I figure I could not go wrong...
It has a built-in headphone amp and I briefly tried my SR60's with it, however, it is a bit powerful...I'm waiting to try the 501's on it but want to wait a little while for burn-in...
Jes

 

[HeatFan12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 Interesting, I use a humble DVD player (Phillips DVP642) as my transport into an Entech 203.2 and I find it works extremely well, well enough for me to flog off my NAD CD player and get a DAP with the proceeds

hciman77...I also use the 642 with my Xenos and 203.2 and it also sounds damn good....
Funny you should bring it up...I was on the verge of buying the NAD cd player, called a local shop and they said they could have it delivered in 4 days, so I told them to hold off.....After all the reviews on the 595 and 642, I bought the 595 and 642, Entech 203.2 and the cables from Blue Jeans and all that added up to cheaper than the standalone NAD....
I'm not saying the NAD is not worth the price, I'm sure it is, but for what I was trying to accomplish, the other route worked out better for me....
It is just so great that you could take a rather inexpensive piece and turn it in to great sound with a little research...
Jes

 

[Davesrose]

Jes, Good to hear that the 595 and Zhaolu are a good match! I mainly have high impedence (b*ch to drive) cans, so I'm thinking of still using my HR desktop amp as my hp amp for it. I'll see if I start liking those 501s too

Hear that the combo opens things up and can make certain cans harsh. Thinking it should really open up my beloved HD600s and the K501s.

If it gets to be too harsh, I may use an old stereo EQ that's laying around at my folks. I don't think it would ruin any integrety if I use a good quality EQ to bump down any frequencies.

Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 Davesrose, I believe you are eyeing that Zhaolu 2.5...I have it and feed it to the CE595 and use the built-in discrete amp and I am very happy with it with low impedance cans... The TC 7510 was bought for my stereo setup...With all the inputs I figure I could not go wrong... It has a built-in headphone amp and I briefly tried my SR60's with it, however, it is a bit powerful...I'm waiting to try the 501's on it but want to wait a little while for burn-in... Jes

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 I'm not saying the NAD is not worth the price, I'm sure it is, but for what I was trying to accomplish, the other route worked out better for me.... It is just so great that you could take a rather inexpensive piece and turn it in to great sound with a little research... Jes

I liked the NAD a lot and I never had any real issues with it, but I (and I stress I) could never reliably say that it was audibly superior to the Phillips, I tried to make myself believe that it was better. As you say, you never know until you try.

The Phillips is in many ways a piece of rubbish, it is flimsy, has known reliability issues, wont play some difficult discs and my Coax digital connection died last week, but when it does play it sounds good to me and my sample at least is remarkably quiet, so end of debate. My only concern is what to replace it with when it keels over.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 It has a built-in headphone amp and I briefly tried my SR60's with it, however, it is a bit powerful...I'm waiting to try the 501's on it but want to wait a little while for burn-in... Jes

Contact manufacturer. He has a mod for that. He only quoted me the postage cost both ways (£20), but in the end I dropped it off by him and it does make a huge difference. I had another mod done as well, both of which are supposed to be included in the November version. SInce I have two of the TC-7510 I can only say that the revised version sounds far superior to my ears than the 1st one, and that one is already good as it is! I understand that some head-fi members had a lot to do with some of the changes.

Once I get some time to do a bit of proper A-B testing of the MKII (for lack of a better description), I'll post my observations.

 

[rodentmacbeastie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose Actually, I have that Phillips DVD player. I also have a Sony CDP (CE345). Actually, just picked up the CD595 for SACD. Well I experimented putting them through my current DAC (will be getting a dedicated one soon, but now I'm using my HK reciever). Both Sonys sound identical (which on my system seems pretty good). I had noticed a difference in sound on my surround system between DVD players (using digital out even, some would sound fuller then others). Well my verdict is that my Sony CDPs are better then my DVD players as CD transports (have a Samsung upconvert and the philips). With both DVD players, there's a noticable rolloff in treble. Both Sony's are identical.....pretty full sound on my system. Wonder if all of this is going to change when I get that DAC!!!!

I am understanding that you are using the CD players as stand alone devices and not as a transport for a DAC, right? If this is the case, I am sure that most CD players will be most DVD players of egual or lesser valure. The original post is about the transport/DAC set-up and scores the DVD player higher as a trasport, not as a stand alone.

As for the Sony sound, Even the multi thousand dollar players sound the same... Better, but the same signature. I find them to be hot in the upper frequencies. On your system(could be dark) the Sony might add a little extra up top to return that sizzle. What I do find though is that while all Sony players I have listened to may have been brighter and hotter it does not make other players rolled off. Instead of rolled off, I prefer smooth as a term... and in the Sony's case I would not call it extended, I would call them tinny.

As for the compatability for the Sony to outboard DACs, I have heard many complaints. IMHO, Sony in general does not play well with the other kids! Not bad by itself(to some ears, not mine) but always an arrogant teamate which does what IT wants! Lol!

 

[Davesrose]

No, I was testing both CD player and DVD players as transports....don't have a dedicated DAC yet, so this was through my digital reciever. The sound quality of the digital input was actually better on the Sony then the DVD players......opposite of the OP. Guess I'll see if the same holds true for when I get my dedicated DAC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodentmacbeastie I am understanding that you are using the CD players as stand alone devices and not as a transport for a DAC, right? If this is the case, I am sure that most CD players will be most DVD players of egual or lesser valure. The original post is about the transport/DAC set-up and scores the DVD player higher as a trasport, not as a stand alone. (to some ears, not mine) but always an arrogant teamate which does what IT wants! Lol!