Some Test Tracks to check for Absolute Phase!

[Ghoostknight]

Hello, after playing alot around with absolute phase, because its so a controversial topic, i wanna share some test tracks i found particular useful:

https://deezer.page.link/9LucBx3iuuRMcp1G9

This one only will play short "impulses" but it perfectly shows if your speakers are in perfect absolute phase, this is surprisingly audible... i hear the most difference in deep bass, with correct polarity you kinda feel/hear the bass flys around you to the other end of the room (behind you)

well with incorrect absolute phase, this kind of sounds the opposite to be honest... like the speakers are "sucking" in the air/bass


If someone got curious about this kind of impulse test tone:
https://www.deezer.com/us/album/335902527
its a album of similar kind of tones but for different frequencys, you can actually check with this how much "linear phase" your speakers are, with correct phase you always get a nice impulse... with altered phase this can become kinda "damped" sounding

 

[Ghoostknight]

two other tracks:
https://deezer.page.link/s5HZ6SV29gcrrojD7
https://deezer.page.link/A8zFAjK1fVPoN6NGA

which make use of switching the polarity of different instruments troughout the songs

 

[bigshot]

Out of phase bass sounds bad. But if the two channels are in phase with each other they sound fine.

 

[Ghoostknight]

that out of phase is bad sounding is out of questions, but there is a difference in absolute polarity

i also have to say i only come across a few songs so far that have incorrect absolute phase in the music, so ideally you wanna go for correct absolute phase

and i even suspect some songs i came across do this intentially to some instruments like bass guitars

 

[Ghoostknight]

i have to check the test tones later on with headphones, and see how audible this is, my absolute phase expierence mainly comes from speaker use

 

[bigshot]

There are lots of songs with individual elements that are out of phase. Just set up a Haffler Doss Sum and Difference Matrix speaker setup and all of it will be thrown to the rear speakers. Dolby Stereo Surroundwas built on it. You may not know what to listen for.

 

[BS5711]

Can I ask, because I have no audio engineering knowledge at all, how does one know the phase of the various recording gear used in the production ?

Assuming conventional two channel speakers or headphones, it seems to me you can change phase in the playback gear and one might sound subjectively better but how do we know what is correct ?

 

[Ghoostknight]

Can I ask, because I have no audio engineering knowledge at all, how does one know the phase of the various recording gear used in the production ?

imo, good gear doesnt invert phase

some probably do it by ear i could imagine, if something "sounds off" in the mix or check with a plugin

Assuming conventional two channel speakers or headphones, it seems to me you can change phase in the playback gear and one might sound subjectively better but how do we know what is correct ?

read my discription about the test tones again, you clearly can hear what is correct phase and what not

this counts for normal instruments too, if you know what to listen for and A/B it, tho i feel abolute phase is specially audible under 1000hz and these test impulse tones make it specially audible, just the thing you need to set it and forget it

imo with transient rich instruments its specially audible, not correct absolute phase will sound slightly off, where absolute phase sounds "more lifelike"

 

[bigshot]

If you listen to psychedelic music, they use phase tricks to separate out mix element to make them sound distant just different. Gregorio is the one who knows all about that.

 

[VNandor]

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/06/musings-and-listening-on-absolute.html
I tried the RME filtered saw wave as that was said to be the easiest to test, I got a 12/12. I was convinced this can be passed because real world gear have enough asymmetrical distortion to create different harmonics when the phase is inverted but according to archimago that's not the main reason.

 

[Ghoostknight]

If you listen to psychedelic music, they use phase tricks to separate out mix element to make them sound distant just different. Gregorio is the one who knows all about that.

i think i came across a few songs that do this... imo you still dont wanna mess up what the artist intended, so you go for correct absolute phase (unless the artist messed up )

I mean, we atleast agree that there is more "correct polarity" music out there than "incorrect polarity", right?

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/06/musings-and-listening-on-absolute.html
I tried the RME filtered saw wave as that was said to be the easiest to test, I got a 12/12. I was convinced this can be passed because any real word gear have enough asymmetrical distortion to create different harmonics when the phase is inverted but according to archimago that's not the main reason.

Did you test my impulse tone?


i did a quick test here with music samples (tho i have to admit, not the best examples, i also felt like you specially get confused if you dont recheck the original at the top once in a while)
https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php

Keep in mind, this was basicly the first (long) test

result attached... 96% confidence

 

[bigshot]

An awful lot of music after the early 80s included out of phase elements. Brian Eno wrote about using it for surround installations, and engineers started incorporating his ideas.

Yes, the main track is in phase. Out of phase is for specific elements that are being separated out.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Yes, the main track is in phase. Out of phase is for specific elements that are being separated out.

thats the point! ... i dont say anything against artistic use of inverse phase, i think i often noticed it with bass guitars and metal/rock songs
i just wanna listen to it like the artist actually intended, even if the difference might be minor, specially if you dont use the "right" songs to test it

 

[Ghoostknight]

here is a bass guitar song where i suspect the bass guitar is out of phase
https://deezer.page.link/YwUPUtj6PTiiws62A

imo also one of the easier ones to actually hear polarity switching even if it might be not everyone's taste

 

[VNandor]

Did you test my impulse tone?

I got a 12/12 on that as well but to my ears the saw wave was easier. For the saw wave test, I didn't have to reference A and B, I just kept playing X and knew immediately if X is A or B. For the impulse, I had to play A and B before deciding on X to get consistent results.

I tried to pass the audiocheck test as well but since I couldn't convince myself I hear a difference, I ended up just guessing.