[Dibujor]

Hello there.
 
I recently picked up a pair of ATH-MSR7 for use with my computer. Since my montherboard is pretty old and crappy I got a Soundblaster Omni 5.1 to drive the headphones and a mic for VoIP. Until I buy a new machine and a Schiit stack this will have to do.
 
It was plug and play (usb) and it works well so I went and install the drivers for it (although Win10 recognizes the card on its own) and it installed this SBX Studio Pro control panel.
 
Now I'm lost. I'm new to all this and half the info I read is either too technical or too focused on music or gaming or whatever. I've read a lot and there's a lot of conflicting information. Many say to just leave the SBX off and others recommend some settings, so I thought I better ask for help for my use case... I guess there's no "serves for all" settings
 
I use the computer for work, a lot of music and youtube videos, some movies and some gaming. Regarding the gaming I play games of all genres and I'm not big into FPS or anything.
 
The software also doesn't help with really descriptive names, just brand names like crystal voice, sbx pro, crystalizer, smart volume,dialog plus, cinematic, etc.
 
Any recommendations for settings? Or should I just uninstall it and use the bare soundcard as dac without sound processing at all?

 

[BrightCandle]

How about I fill in the gaps of knowledge and then you can decide yourself how you want to run it.
 
There are kind of two ways to run this type of sound device for headphones. You can either run it in 2.0 mode and then its just a Digital to analog converter (DAC) and an amplifier and it outputs the channels given to Windows to your omni and out into your headphones will no realy processing other than converting it into analog for your headphones. This is how most audiophiles want things.
 
The other mode your device supports is 5.1 channels in Windows and then SBX pro can convert those channels down to 2.0 for your headphones. What it does is applys a couple of algorithms called the head related transform function (HRTF) and the head related impulse response (HRIR which is basically the room reflections) to simulate the way the ears and body work to determine where sound comes from. We only have 2 ears but the shape of our ears and the distance between them as well as the head/shoulders and other body aspects change the sound as it comes to us and we use this to determine a 360 degree dome of directional sound and even distance estimation. That is what SBX pro does, it enables those algorithms to take the 5.1 channels and add in those directional cues so it sounds like a sound is coming from a particular direction.
 
SBX pro does kind of different things depending on the source. For games its obvious hearing around you like that rather than just left to right gives you an advantage in finding where other people or things are happening, its much more immersive and gives you an advantage against people who don't have it. For movies using 5.1 you can get those rear speakers on your headphones which again puts you inside the movie/TV. For music what it does is move the sound out of your head and in front of you. With SBX pro it can sometimes sound like a pair of speakers directly ahead of you and for some people they prefer that.
 
Crystal voice - applies effects to your microphone input. Most of its garbage and is best left off, none of it is necessary and if you have noise on the microphone its your soundblaster omni, all the soundblaster stuff is famous for compatibility issues with certain microphones.
 
Crystalizer - It tries to undo the impact of mp3 compression to add in what was lost in the compression. If you have good music files that aren't 128kbps mp3s then don't bother
 
Smart Volume - Tries to keep the volume of things in a narrower volume range by reducing dynamic range. You might want it on, you might not depending on whether you want the full dynamic range or not and how pure you are about algorithms on the sound that don't need to be there.
 
Dialog plus - As far as I know it just boosts the EQ associated with human voice so its louder and easier to pick out. You shouldn't need it.
 
Hopefully that helps you understand the primary capabilities its giving you options on and what to try out and what it might give you.

 

[Dibujor]

Hey BrightCandle, thanks! that was a very informative response
 
 
So after reading your explanation I have things a bit more clear .
 
 
I guess best of both worlds would be to have SBX Pro Off when only hearing music (maybe the crystalizer on with those crappy 128 MP3). I think music has to be "as intended" without much soundcard processing I suppose, so no smart volume algorithms.
 
And then for games/movies have it on. SBX on mainly refers to having the "Surround" option checked, right?, that's what makes the "5.1 effect". The rest of that tab isn't really needed for movies/games (No crystalizer, bass, smart volume or dialog plus). Don't really like overly processed sounds.
 
So, for the SBX on you mean having the 5.1 option on windows audio control (speaker config) and "headphones" on SBX control panel. And for music have both set as headphones (or "stereo" as windows calls it). Is it possible to have windows configured as 5.1 always? Any disadvantages when playing just music?
 
For the mic I'll be using a Modmic v5 that isn't here yet so can't say. But what I take from what you say is deactivate crystal voice unless something strange happens with the mic right?
 
Last question if I may abuse your patience.. on cinematic tab (or cinema, I don't have the english version) should it be on "Dolby Digital" or "No decoder"? 
 
 
It's just my first time with "good headphones" so I want to be sure I'm getting the most I can out of them with what I have. I'd hate spending $200 on these headphones and not be taking real advantage out of them.
 
I guess in the future all this will be mostly moot since I plan on getting a Schiit Stack and no soundcard (other than the integrated one to run the mic) so those won't have this surround options available. But that's still a few months away.
 
Thanks again!

 

[BrightCandle]

OK the nitty gritty of headphones and 5.1 SBX is a bit of a pain.
 
In your soundblaster control panel on the speakers/headphones tab for games you want the Speakers set to 5.1 and then have the headphones switch switched back to headphones, you can validate its correct in the volume controller in playback devices for that sound device that when you configure it you should see 5.1 speakers. The soundblaster control panel can control that configuration and you need SBX pro on. That should be all it takes.
 
Then for music with headphones you want the speakers to Stereo (2.0/2.1) and then back into headphone mode and SBX pro off. Again you can validate it in the volume control bottom corner of the screen right click to playback devices and right click configure speakers on the sound device and see its 2.0.
 
Disable everything crystallizer voice wise, its all awful. But Mod mics's don't work well with soundblaster Z's, I don't know if that is fixed with the omni but no amount of crystallizer voice is going to fix it. They are good mics but not on my soundblaster Z. I had to get a USB sound card for like £10, mod mic sell them but they are everywhere on amazon as well. If you get any problems with background hiss save yourself the years of suffering of trying to find a way and just get a USB sound card. Just trust me on this one, been there done that and living with the regret of not buying a £5 usb soundcard sooner.
 
Cinema. I am not 100% sure, since I never used the feature. As I understand it the Dolby Digital and DTS settings on this tab are for  controlling the encoding output that goes to a receiver, when using a toslink output into a receiver and choosing whether its PCM, dd or DTS. I have never looked into passthrough and all that jazz for the PC since I tend to use analog devices directly with just headphones.
 
It might interest you to hear I used a Schiit stack and still do with my sound solution. I used a Soundblaster Z for its surround sound and primary sound device in windows and then used 5.1->SBX or headphones 2.0 for output and then run a toslink out to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and that output to a Schiit Magni 2 out to my HD 598s. The magic setting to make that work is in the soundblaster advanced features tab called "play stero mix to digital output". It gives you the best of both worlds, you can have the surround for gaming and get it dac/amped via the superior schiit kit or turn the processing off for your music.
 
Nowadays I actually use a Sennheiser GSX 1000 as the surround sound is better and more accurate and less coloured and I output to my Schiit Magni 2. I would really like it if they had a toslink out so I could just get the processing and DAC it with the modi 2 uber as the DAC is kind of bad in the sennheiser device but at least I have a decent amp in there still.

 

[BrightCandle]

Sorry should have addressed 5.1 with music and SBX pro off. I think that works OK actually you might not need to switch to 2.0 speaker mode as the left and right channels that get played to via the player are what the headphone is using. Should be fine but by all means test it. I am not a purist when it comes to headphone music, I don't like the in your head feel so I play it with SBX on so it sounds like its coming from speakers in front of me. Test it out and find it there is any difference, I don't notice anything greatly perceptable right now having tested it.

 

[Dibujor]

  OK the nitty gritty of headphones and 5.1 SBX is a bit of a pain.
 
In your soundblaster control panel on the speakers/headphones tab for games you want the Speakers set to 5.1 and then have the headphones switch switched back to headphones, you can validate its correct in the volume controller in playback devices for that sound device that when you configure it you should see 5.1 speakers. The soundblaster control panel can control that configuration and you need SBX pro on. That should be all it takes.
 
Then for music with headphones you want the speakers to Stereo (2.0/2.1) and then back into headphone mode and SBX pro off. Again you can validate it in the volume control bottom corner of the screen right click to playback devices and right click configure speakers on the sound device and see its 2.0.

I'm not sure I understood the steps here. On the speakers/headphone tab I have three options: headphones, stereo and 5.1 surround (the last one with a lot of options for speakers and all that jazz. As physical device I only have headphones, not speakers. I don't know if you mean changing things in windows, in sbx control panel... 
 
Would you mind a step by step or ELI5 for both options? 

 
 
For the rest I'll follow your word, no crystalizer and the dolby thing... better leave it alone. Hope the modmic works well though, since the Omni is a USB external card and I bought it for that
 

 It might interest you to hear I used a Schiit stack and still do with my sound solution. I used a Soundblaster Z for its surround sound and primary sound device in windows and then used 5.1->SBX or headphones 2.0 for output and then run a toslink out to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and that output to a Schiit Magni 2 out to my HD 598s. The magic setting to make that work is in the soundblaster advanced features tab called "play stero mix to digital output". It gives you the best of both worlds, you can have the surround for gaming and get it dac/amped via the superior schiit kit or turn the processing off for your music.
 
Nowadays I actually use a Sennheiser GSX 1000 as the surround sound is better and more accurate and less coloured and I output to my Schiit Magni 2. I would really like it if they had a toslink out so I could just get the processing and DAC it with the modi 2 uber as the DAC is kind of bad in the sennheiser device but at least I have a decent amp in there still.

 

Oh, really? you can do surround with a schiit stack? I didn't know that. I was planning on getting a Modi2 and a Magni2 Uber (since I want also speakers on that future build) or/and maybe a SYS.
 
Maybe I should into adding a SB Z to that to use the surround on movies/games.

 Sorry should have addressed 5.1 with music and SBX pro off. I think that works OK actually you might not need to switch to 2.0 speaker mode as the left and right channels that get played to via the player are what the headphone is using. Should be fine but by all means test it. I am not a purist when it comes to headphone music, I don't like the in your head feel so I play it with SBX on so it sounds like its coming from speakers in front of me. Test it out and find it there is any difference, I don't notice anything greatly perceptable right now having tested it.

 
I'm no purist either, as you can tell by this being my first "good" setup. Just want to find something that works . Shame you have to be changing settings for different things. I guess I can make two different profiles for music and games and change those. I found this, though it's for soundblaster Z: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sbzswitcher/

 

[BrightCandle]

Step by step.
 
(A) Soundblaster Control panel for Games:
 
1. Make your speaker setup look like this (https://i.imgur.com/POZVXQj.jpg) but leave all the optional speakers off (since you don't have a 5.1 speaker setup). This will actually change the Windows sound for the device to 5.1.
 
2. On that same tab at the top you have a slider for speakers/headphones you now set it to headphones.
 
3. On the SBX pro tab (https://www.custompcreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/creative-sound-blaster-z-pcie-sound-card-custom-pc-review-17.jpg) have the Button for SBX Pro Studio on and also surround on (or off for music) and set it to 33%. There are two settings that work well for people, 33 and 66 but start with 33. Everything else leave off.
 
Validating its set up correctly:
 
 
 
i) Taskbar bottom right you have the volume controller. Right click it and select playback devices.
 
ii) in the device listing find your omni (should have a green tick on it if its working) and right click it and select configure speakers.
 
iii) you should see 5.1 speakers and the optional ones are greyed out on the image. You can click cancel.
 
(B) Music option 1 just SBX off.
 
Everything from (A) but in the SBX Pro tab disable SBX pro and it'll remove the surround option as well.
 
Validation:
 
i) same way and result as (A)
 
(C) Music Option 2 SBX off and 2.0
 
This likely isn't necessary but incase it is:
 
1. On the same speaker/headphone page (https://i.imgur.com/POZVXQj.jpg) instead select 2.0/2.1.
 
2. Now switch back to headphones.
 
3. Set SBX pro off in the SBX pro tab.
 
Validation:
 
i) same place as before but configure speakers should now show a 2.0 setup instead.
 
------
 
Shamefully I never tried the SBZ switcher but I really should have. I got so used to the use of the panel I just added it to the desktop and did the few steps necessary to switch the modes around as I needed for different activities. It was a pain the beginning because you couldn't change it while sound was playing but nowadays that works so long as you don't change the speaker layout because then Windows gets very angry with you.

 

[Dibujor]

Damn! I just arrived home to try your steps and got stopped at the first step... since I don't have that headphones option. My SBX control panel looks like this (click to enlarge):
 

 
As you can see, no option at the top for headphones or speakers if I choose the 5.1, just inside the drop down menu you have headphones, stereo and 5.1.
 
Does this mean I can't do it? Sorry for being so annoying
 
[EDIT]
Seems that changing the options in there works as you told me. If I choose 5.1 (wether SBX and surround are on or OFF) and I check on windows devices, 5.1 is selected (and optionals greyed out). If in SBX control panel  I change that to "Stereo"(2.0 as you said)  and check windows again, it is, efectively changed to stereo. If I choose "Headphones" on SBX CP drop down, windows seem to stay in whatever option it was prior to choosing that option. Hope I have explained well. THe only thing I don't find how to do is on SBX CP choose 5.1 AND headphones. This tab seems to serve as a way to just control the windows device from within the SBX control panel
 
[/EDIT]
 
The Zswitcher seems like a convenient way to change profiles for what we're talking on the fly but seeing as there are differences between the omni control panel and the Z ones I don't know if it would work... I have to look into it , specially since the "profiles" inside the SBX control panel save everything BUT the speakers/headphones tab. Whatever you choose there doesn't get changed no matter what profile you save and choose

 

[BrightCandle]

So long as Windows is showing the right thing that is fine. The SB control panel does indeed set what is need in windows and then the change to headphones puts the output in the right place, which is why I have you do it that way. But since the control is a little different that is an interesting change, but so long as its right in Windows I doubt there is any need to do it the control panel there anyway. All fine.
 
Shame about SBZ switcher but its not super essential as you'll probably find the only thing you do in practice is set windows to 5.1 and switch SBX pro on and off.

 

[Dibujor]

God I'm dumb. Yeah, as I was doing other things I realized that, if I keep always the windows device on 5.1 (as it shouldn't cause any problems even with music) the only thing I have to do to switch between movies/games and music "profiles" is, literally switch SBX pro on and off. 

 As I said, noob here and sometimes you think so much about something  that it ends up looking more complicated than it really is.
 
Is interesting though that I really don't notice much difference between sbx on and off (only surround option checked) on regular youtube (as in no movies or music videos) 33% or 66%. I mean, I notice "something" but not that much "oompf" if you know what I mean. It's really noticeable if you enable the crystalizer, though.
 
Can confirm the SBZ switcher doesn't work with the omni. When you try to run it, says it doesn't detect a sondblaster z or recon3D and doesn't work. Shame but, as noted, no big deal.
 
Thank you so much for your help.
 
I was on the look for taking advantage of this headphones with what I have and seems it is as good as it's going to get . I thought I was missing something since, after using crappy headphones and countless hours reading about good headphones, audio, sound shapes, etc. and deciding on what to get, I guess I was expecting to plug them and be amazed  XD. In reality what I got was a "mm, this sounds better than before" but no "wow" moment
 
Of course there's a whole world out there and hope that future Schiit stack serves me well, as it's probably going to be my end game.

 

[BrightCandle]

After having this chat I realised it had been quite a while since I played a game without surround sound. I fired up Battlefield 1 with 2.0 and set its headphone mode and started to play. Its clearly worse but there are some directional cues at least but its nothing like what I get with the GSX 1000 or the SBZ. Overwatch was the same, Atmos gives me a similar feel to headphone mode in BF1, OK and better than nothing but no where near as good. Always good to validate its still the way it works. I don't have a Xonar anymore but it feels pretty similar to how I remember that worked, clearly better than nothing at all or Razor's software or the Realtek implmentation.
 
For 2.0 content on youtube and such all I feel it does is make it a little less fatiguing. Its not like a massive change having SBX pro on for that because it just moves the sense of the sound in front of you a bit but its also not perfect. It should clearly move the sound in front of you but it might take a bit to learn the cues because the HRTF its using doesn't match how you hear. If you switch between speakers and headphones a lot (I do) one day you might be wearing the headphones and be unclear which the sound is coming from asnd have to check, so it can be pretty convincing.
 
When I added the schiit stack I felt it made the sound clearer and much more accurate. I wouldn't say its going to blow your mind as it was a subtle improvement. I don't think the surround sound is subtle however compared to the generic stuff games ship with especially since BF1 and overwatch ship with some of the more advanced surround sound processing out there and most games do basically nothing.

 

[rickyday]

ok so i also have sound blaster z sound card and when i switch it to 5.1 my sound dont work. it only works when i have it set to headphones. Please help