SAC-K1000 Amp driving AKG-K501s

Nov 18, 2001 at 3:02 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 38

kwkarth

Electronics guys... we have our plusses and minuses. With advent of digital everything, we're being phased out
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[size=medium]I moved the technical DIY related material from this original thread which was in the AMP section to the DIY section. We can continue to discuss the mods there and I'll post my eval of the sound to this original thread here in the AMPs section.
Cheers!
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I've adapted the SAC-K1000 head-amp to drive conventional phones as well as the K1000’s and so far it seems VERY IMPRESSIVE! The 501's are transformed. They sounded good to my ear with the Creek OBH-11SE, although the Creek at times could be made to sound like it needed more power for the 501's.

Driven by the SAC-K1000 the 501’s are at another level altogether.

Yet more transparency, more space between the instruments, bass that plumbs the depths, yet they retain their clean balance. I completely didn't expect this, but there's more depth to the soundstage, more ambience retrieval of the hall. There is GOBs of power on reserve.

I'll have to listen more at length, but my initial impressions are that my hat just got knocked in the crick! Wow! I may indeed sell my Creek OBH-11SE to finance some more interconnects or Porta-Corda, etc... The Creek's a great amp that I've been very happy with for over a year, but at this rate, it doesn't sound like I have need of it any more.
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I can't wait to review all my headphones with this amp!

Cheers!

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Nov 18, 2001 at 3:08 AM Post #2 of 38
Quote:

Yet more transparency, more space between the instruments, bass that plumbs the depths, yet they retain their clean balance.


Sounds like Etys.
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Just whetting your appetite, Kevin.
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Nov 18, 2001 at 3:22 AM Post #3 of 38
Thanks Joe, what are friends for anyway!
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BTW, my Grados seem to sound great with this amp too!
 
Nov 18, 2001 at 3:23 AM Post #4 of 38
I haven't received my MG Head yet, but the SAC/K-1000 combo looks so cool that I should start saving money now.
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Nov 18, 2001 at 4:20 AM Post #6 of 38
Pigmode:
The 501's are more amp dependant than the 600's. They're absolutely a revelation with the SAC!

This is the ad copy from Jan’s web page; [size=xx-small]The K 1000 amplifier originally was made for AKG by the small German HiFi-factory SAC (Specialty Audio Corporation.) After AKG decided to stop selling amplifiers SAC continued production and the true Hi-Fi enthusiast is now able to obtain this high-quality amplifier for a price far below the original retail-price of $1100,-
The K 1000 has full class-A operation. Professional symmetric XLR inputs and an external power supply make this unit immune for interferences.
Both 110 Volts and 220 Volts versions are available.
Note: Adapters for asymmetric cinch-connectors are added as a bonus by Meier-Audio.[/size]

As noted below, it is capable of 12V output into the 120 ohm load of the K1000 headphones.
This translates into 1.2Watts @ 100mA into the 120 ohm load.
Bandwidth 2Hz->200kHz +0-1dB
At 11.5V output, the distortion is less than 0.1% (type not specified)

Max. Ausgangsspannung >12 V
Max. Verstärkung Line 20,9 dB
Max. Verstärkung Aux 28,7 dB
Übertragungsbereich Line <2Hz - > 200 kHz -1dB
Übertragungsbereich Aux <2Hz - > 110 kHz -1dB
Klirrfaktor 11,5 V Ausgangsspannung < 0,1 %
Eingangsempfindlichkeit Line 950 mV für 10 V Ausgangsspannung
Eingangsempfindlichkeit Aux 360 mV für 10 V Ausgangsspannung
Eingangsimpedanz 2 x 7,5 kOhm
Abmessungen (B x H x T) 170 x 75 x 190 mm
Gewicht 2,4 kg
 
Nov 18, 2001 at 6:33 AM Post #8 of 38
Even the DT-250's are remarkably improved in their detail, definition, air, and soundstage. How do they do it??
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Nov 19, 2001 at 8:35 AM Post #9 of 38
[size=medium]The SAC-K1000 vs. the Creek OBH-11SE driving the AKG-501[/size]

First, let me say that up until recently, I pretty much thought that the Creek OBH-11SE was the cat’s meow! Truthfully, it is a wonderful amp, it sounds great with a huge variety of headphones, and it represents a good value in the Headphone world.

My downfall was that I first bought a pair of AKG-K1000 headphones thinking that I could get away with powering them with a little Class-A Kenwood amp I had. Well, the amp worked, but the combo sounded pretty mediocre. I started looking around for a better amp for the K1000s. I read all the reviews I could find on the amp, and was most swayed by the review that Jan Meier posted. About that same time a fellow Head-Fier put the SAC-K1000 amp up for sale. He had a conventional amp that was working and sounding better for his AKG K1000’s. I jumped at the opportunity, again confident that Jan’s review couldn’t be too far off the mark. When the SAC arrived, I couldn’t wait to hook it up and give it a listen!

Frankly, out of the box, it sounded really crummy. First, the AKG-K1000’s weren’t quite broken in yet and the SAC itself, not only was not broken in, but much to my chagrin, was wired with one channel out of phase! Over the course of the following week I corrected the wiring problem on one of the two front panel jacks of the SAC. (Yup, it has two. More about that later)

Once properly phased, the K1000’s started to come alive. The AKG-K1000’s are another story though, so let’s get on to the 501’s.

Somewhere in all of this, I met Neruda and heard his AKG-K401’s. Before I bought the K1000’s, I debated whether or not I should get the 501’s rather than the K1000’s. Both were rather attractively priced…but at the time I decided to spring for the big ones. Well after hearing the 401’s, there was something about them that I really liked about them. Couldn’t quite put my finger on it at the time. Something natural, clean, uncluttered and unclouded about them.

Well, heck they’re on sale anyway right? So I ordered a pair. Hey, I like ‘em, I like ‘em! I liked them so well that they became my main cans replacing a position held by the venerable Grados for years before that. I save the K1000s for desert! Don’t want to totally spoil myself, after all! Well, as time went along, the K1000’s continued to mellow along with the SAC amp. Eventually, I came to the place that the K1000’s became my main cans, displacing all others, except for purposes of comparison to help me understand how they did things so well.

As time went along I saw a number of posts regarding questions about the right amp for the AKG-K501’s. As I continued to listen critically to the OBH-11SE driving the 501’s I did notice that on some material I could get it to clip. That pushed me over the edge to complete my testing of the SAC to see if I could safely use it to drive conventional cans, the 501’s included. Once I was convinced the conversion was safe for the amp, I built a quick adaptor using an Switchcraft A4M, a .25m length of Canare Quad cable, and a TRS metal in-line ¼” phone jack. These parts are just what was readily available. I intend to redo all this stuff later using better parts. (more about this in the DIY section)

OK, Ok, enough already, so howz it sound anyway?
Initial impression of the SAC driving the 501’s:
Gobs of power and gain in reserve. This thing drives these cans with a power and authority that I never imagined possible! Better ambience retrieval. More extension at both ends of the spectrum. How can this thing sound any better than the Creek? But it seems to!

The Afro Cuban All Stars: Horns have more brilliance & sparkle to them through the SAC than with the Creek. Nice brass! More “space” between all instruments, especially noticeable during the really rowdy sections of the disc where everybody is going nuts all at the same time.

Pomp & Pipes, track 9, Jaromir Weinberger, Polka and Fugue from Schwanda the Bagpiper
I cannot find words to convey to you the magnificence this piece. The Creek does a magnificent job with this piece until we get to the place where the Orchestra and Organ together “kick it up a notch” or two, or three, no, make that four, nope, more than that!! With the Creek, you can tell that something very wonderful and magnificent is going on, but it doesn’t all quite make it through the amp to the 501’s.

With the SAC, Yikes!! What a wonderful juxtaposition, the delicate triangles punctuated by the thunderous foundation of the bass drum, as much felt as heard, (yes, I think my ears were flapping in the breeze!) the magnificence of the cymbals, and then there’s that incredible pipe organ, its resounding 30 foot pipes shaking the very foundation of my soul! Well, words just seem to fail me here. There’s no way on God’s green earth you wouldn’t be able to say that the 501’s aren’t capable of incredible excitement. With the right amp, that is.
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The only headphone/amp that I’ve heard do this piece better is the K1000/SAC combo with the external subwoofer.

Well, duty calls, I must get back to the music! I’ll write more later. Now I have to not only re-discover my whole CD collection, but I have to do it with every headphone that I own!
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It’s a terrible job, but someone has to do it!!
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Nov 19, 2001 at 5:16 PM Post #11 of 38
WOW You guys make me so jealous! Can you trult achieve impressive bass from headphones? If so, which headphones and what amp do I need to buy? Keep in mind that I am a basshead (not basehead, BASShead
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). I have 2 RF DVC 15's in a 6 cu. ft. ported enclosure tuned to 35Hz (yes, self-designed
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) with a RF Power 250.2, capable of ~900 watts RMS so I mean BASS! Do you guys just use external subs with 'phones to get that impact that I imagine you just can't get from 'phones, or am I correct in my presumption that you just can't get good bass from headphones?

Brett
 
Nov 19, 2001 at 6:31 PM Post #12 of 38
I did some listening to the 580's last night (2am) and I was very pleased. At first blush, they sounded like they were really under control for the first time. This may be all in my head, (pun intended) but I'm left with the impression that this amp just grabs all these headphones by the throat and subdues them to its will. The 580 sounded more open in the upper midrange than I've ever heard before. The bass was more controlled. I'ts going to take some time for the honeymoon to wear off and I'll have to do some extended listening, but those are my impressions so far.

Without knowing some technical details about the Max or Corda, I would say that one thing that sets the SAC apart is the actual power that it has at its disposal. I'ts capable of dumping over a watt into 120 ohms. This is something that is completely unnecessary for any cans but the AKG's, but the incredible reserve seems to make a difference when things get busy, sonically speaking. There is an amazing amount of ambiance retrieval and soundstage beyond the Creek too. I would love to be able to compare the SAC with the Max and Corda regarding those sonic aspects.

Things stay so clean, so loud that I'll have to really watch myself. Keep in mind that the SAC sounds better at lower playback volumes than the Creek too. I wish I had good scope handy.

The bandwidth of the SAC is out to 200Hkz, so it is of the wide bandwidth school of design.

domer2004,
I like bass too, in it's place and proper proportion. The bottom octave of the musical spectrum is absolutely essential for full conveyance of the music. The AKG-K1000 headphones are such an open design that they are actually bipolar radiators, much like Magnaplanar or Martin Logan CLS speakers, so they are nice and flat to about 45Hz and then there's virtually nothing below that due to rear wave cancellation, so I use an external subwoofer with those headphones. Properly set up, the effect is AMAZING! Seamless top to bottom. Speaking of bottom, it rocks you to your toes!

With my other headphones, I do not use the sub because they do not require it. Of all the cans I have, probably the Beyet DT-250's have the best bottom end. It goes down forever (much better than the 580's) just like my sub and it is tight, well defined and tuneful.

Although I do not own a pair (yet) of Ety's, from what I read, their bass is much the same way. The thing about headphone bass is that compared to external speakers, you just hear the bass, but you don't feel it affecting your whole body as you would with speakers. The circumnaural headphones provide some psychoacoustic sensation of "feeling" the bass because they affect your outer ear as well as the eardrum. You would not have even this effect with the Ety's but because of their extreme low driver mass and high degree of coupling to your eardrum, it is hard to imagine a more tuneful bass experience.

Well, back to the music. Well, somebody's got to do it!
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Happy Listening!
 
Nov 20, 2001 at 3:16 AM Post #13 of 38
It sounds like everybody loves the Etymotic ear phones. I just can't stand buds. Maybe these would be different, but I can't stand the feeling of having something in my ear (I guess I am an ear homophobe
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). I guess I am addicted to feeling the bass. If it doesn't move my hair, I don't consider it loud enough
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Brett
 
Nov 20, 2001 at 3:58 AM Post #14 of 38
So then domer2004, it sounds like you're a candidate for the AKG/SAC K1000/sub system!!
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