[Monsterzero]

Gotta toss this out here,in case im overlooking something.

I have my HD600s up for trade and I am looking for an alternative that excels with classic rock/classic metal.

Im asking for Grados or Alessandros in comparable price range.

Ive had quite a few offers but nothing that I feel wont be a sidegrade for rock,or not suitable for my setup or genre of music.

So I need something around the same price of HD600s that pair well with my WA2 amp,or

Are easy to drive and dont require an amp

That are great for metal/rock...something fast and non bloated.

Can anyone think of something I should look into besides Grado/Alessandro?

Thanks!

 

[Asr]

The Audio-Technica R70x might be right up your alley. Very suitable for rock & metal in general in contrast to the HD600, and it has the bass/mid-bass that the HD600 doesn't, plus it'd be driven well by your WA2.
 
As far as the Grado line goes, I don't have any experience with the latest "e" models, but the SR225 was the definite sweet spot before the "e" models came out. The R70x and SR225 would be very different from each other sonically—if you don't like one of them, you might like the other.
 
Btw, since you're in NY there's very likely a store around there where you'd be able to check out the Grado line. Most audio shops that sell headphones tend to have Grados on display. You could maybe try to stop by Grado themselves (since they're based in Brooklyn), but failing that I've heard about Audio46 and Stereo Exchange. And ACGears might have the R70x, since they carry Audio-Technica. Woo Audio is based in Brooklyn too, and they sell headphones, so maybe you could try to stop by their place too?

 

[Monsterzero]

  The Audio-Technica R70x might be right up your alley. Very suitable for rock & metal in general in contrast to the HD600, and it has the bass/mid-bass that the HD600 doesn't, plus it'd be driven well by your WA2.
 
As far as the Grado line goes, I don't have any experience with the latest "e" models, but the SR225 was the definite sweet spot before the "e" models came out. The R70x and SR225 would be very different from each other sonically—if you don't like one of them, you might like the other.
 
Btw, since you're in NY there's very likely a store around there where you'd be able to check out the Grado line. Most audio shops that sell headphones tend to have Grados on display. You could maybe try to stop by Grado themselves (since they're based in Brooklyn), but failing that I've heard about Audio46 and Stereo Exchange. And ACGears might have the R70x, since they carry Audio-Technica. Woo Audio is based in Brooklyn too, and they sell headphones, so maybe you could try to stop by their place too?

Thanks for the input...

It is an odd twist of coincidence that the makers of both Woo and Grado are right here in NY.I'd like to say that im a rabid NYer,but alas,merely a transplanted SoCal native who ended up here by way of SE Asia.

For various reasons I cant get out to test various headphones anymore.I am planning on hitting the Headfi NY meet coming up in a few months,but Im assuming by then,my Senns will have be swapped for something.

I did some reading on the R70x and came across a couple comments that suggested that these might not be what I'm looking for.I get that sound is very subjective,but sometimes less subjective than others.

From this Review here

http://www.head-fi.org/t/765004/audio-technica-ath-r70x-in-depth-review-impressions

These quotes specifically:

"And I recommend avoiding warm and smooth sounding amplifier for ATH-R70x."

and

"When compared to T1 & HD800, ATH-R70x is not as fast sounding as those flagships, and not the best choice for extremely fast pace & complex music. But regular pace music, pop and jazz, sounds gorgeous on ATH-R70x."

Do your experiences with R70x match up with this?

I use quite a few songs to test various headphones for their ability to hack and slay their way thru my type of music.

On Parasite Inc. "Pulse of the Dead" If the pace @:30 mark sounds articulate and well defined I consider that to be a "fast" enough headphone.If on the other hand the drums come out as a singular blur,as opposed to detailed strikes,then i consider that to be a mark of "bloat" and slow.Ideally I wanna hear the drum strikes,the rumble of the bass and the guitar work each articulated,(which T1s do)but also hear the aggression and feel the midbass(T1s do not)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St6ZzLMMVe4

I get that the T1 is a much more expensive headphone than HD600s,Grado 225e or 325e,and the R70x,and frankly the T1 is a great headphone for most if not all types of music,but Id like a little more midbass and a less "polite" sound,to go with the speed.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterzero /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have my HD600s up for trade and I am looking for an alternative that excels with classic rock/classic metal.
---
That are great for metal/rock...something fast and non bloated.

 

Did you adjust the fit on the headband, and use a different amplifier? Because when I had a Little Dot MkII (which is a warmifying colorificator as much as it is an "amplifier," ie, it colorized the input signal on its way out of it) my HD600 had bloated bass and sharp treble.

 

What I did was extend the headband to max and then bend it near the center of the exposed metal for 10secs, then closer to the gimbals for another 10secs. Repeat on the other side, then repeat for both a few more times until the fit barely clamps around the jaw. Less compression on the earpads tightens up the bass and relaxes most of the treble, and the midrange is less veiled. It's a lot more comfortable and the pads get less wear on them since they aren't as compressed when in use.

 

The only downside is that you can't store it in the box.

 

 

[Monsterzero]

I dont find the HD600s veil to be the problem.Rather it,like the T1, is too polite for me.

The reasons I liked the 600s originally I still like,but my T1s have filled the role that the 600s used to.

Secondly I cannot afford another amp,not to mention my wife would kill me,which isnt a good thing

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterzero /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I dont find the HD600s veil to be the problem. Rather it,like the T1, is too polite for me.

The reasons I liked the 600s originally I still like,but my T1s have filled the role that the 600s used to,

 

I never really found it "veiled" as people seem to mean when they use the term, until I ran it on a CMOY amp anyway. The worn out earpads, the default clamp, and the LD MKII however all contributed to bloated bass and some sharpness in the treble, and assumed that "something fast and non-bloated" meant that you were hearing "'slow' and bloated bass" out of the HD600.

 

I never really found the HD600 "too polite" either, and actually I had the SR225 before that and sold the Grado as the sound was very similar once I adjusted the headband. If anything, the Grado was "too upfront." Tonally it seems exciting but the imaging was just too stereotypically headphone - drums popping smack outside my ears and by my nose, but between those it's like there's no other sound. The HD600 pushing the drums back a bit wasn't just polite, it was just a bit more consistent with proper imaging, just at the scale of a headphone soundstage. It didn't have the depth of the K701 but it was closer to that than the SR225.

 

If you're going for a Grado might as well save up a bit more for the RS1 (any version); otherwise, try to get a hold of the SR325, but note that the cymbals on those are definitely not polite to the point of really getting up in your face on practically any recording. There's the RS2 but that's a bit rare so it'll be hard finding one out there much less to trade for the HD600. Your best bet at the HD600's price point would be the Alessandro MS2, but again it's still for the most part the SR325 (just with slightly different tuning) so the cymbals are still going to be up front.

 

[Monsterzero]

 

 
 

If you're going for a Grado might as well save up a bit more for the RS1 (any version); otherwise, try to get a hold of the SR325, but note that the cymbals on those are definitely not polite to the point of really getting up in your face on practically any recording. There's the RS2 but that's a bit rare so it'll be hard finding one out there much less to trade for the HD600. Your best bet at the HD600's price point would be the Alessandro MS2, but again it's still for the most part the SR325 (just with slightly different tuning) so the cymbals are still going to be up front.

Am looking for a 325e or better yet MS2,but was wondering if theres anything else I should consider that will smack me around a bit when I want to get my metal on.

Im hesitant to take your suggestions on the 600s headband,which may or may not give me what im looking for.It will give me a stretched out headphone that will make it harder to trade :/

EDIT: to be clear I dont find the 600s bloated,I mentioned bloat to avoid anyone making the ubiquitous HD650 and LCD 2 suggestions,both of which I find bloated.

 

[sling5s]

  Gotta toss this out here,in case im overlooking something.

I have my HD600s up for trade and I am looking for an alternative that excels with classic rock/classic metal.

Im asking for Grados or Alessandros in comparable price range.

Ive had quite a few offers but nothing that I feel wont be a sidegrade for rock,or not suitable for my setup or genre of music.

So I need something around the same price of HD600s that pair well with my WA2 amp,or

Are easy to drive and dont require an amp

That are great for metal/rock...something fast and non bloated.

Can anyone think of something I should look into besides Grado/Alessandro?

Thanks!

Currently, Grado GH-1 is probably the best Grado under PS1000e. 325e is currently the new sweet spot for Grados.
If you want the Grado sound but for less, than try the Magnum 6V or Ypsilon drivers and make your own customs. You can get the drivers and parts all for about $300 and have a headphone that performs better than the RS1i and 325e and competes with GH-1. 

 

[Monsterzero]

 
Currently, Grado GH-1 is probably the best Grado under PS1000e. 325e is currently the new sweet spot for Grados.
If you want the Grado sound but for less, than try the Magnum 6V or Ypsilon drivers and make your own customs. You can get the drivers and parts all for about $300 and have a headphone that performs better than the RS1i and 325e and competes with GH-1. 

how would that mod compare to a SennGrado,which im having made,and should be here soon(my old eyes just cant do detailed soldering anymore)?

 

[sling5s]

 
how would that mod compare to a SennGrado,which im having made,and should be here soon(my old eyes just cant do detailed soldering anymore)?

Very simple soldering to two terminals per driver.
If you read the Grado Magnum (6V) thread or Ypsilon thread, those that have the SennGrado find the Magnum 6V or Ypsilon superior. Personally I never tried the SennGrado.
See if you can purchase an already made Magnum 6V or Ypsilon. I had the GH-1 (RS2e, RS1e, 325e) but sold it and purchased an already made Magnum 6V custom for $300 and than switch out the Magnum V6 driver for Ypsilon driver. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterzero /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Im hesitant to take your suggestions on the 600s headband,which may or may not give me what im looking for.It will give me a stretched out headphone that will make it harder to trade :/

 

It's reversible. The only reason why I don't do so is because then I'd have to bend it again when I use, bend it again to put it back in the box, bend it again when I use it, bend it again when I put it back in the box, bend it again when I use it...that's more likely to damage it. Also any bending force you apply has to be on the metal, never on the plastic bits, which aren't that flexible and as it is even the flex of taking it off and putting them on eventually cracks the paint finish that on an extremely static surface wouldn't peel off (ie the headband paint on the HD580/600/650 peels off, but not on the gimbals).

 

Also, if I don't use it for long enough, it actually starts going back to its original shape, so some light bending every few months is actually still needed. If you wear them several hours a day this isn't going to be a problem, but on average I only use them a few nights a week to listen to two or three albums at a time.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsterzero /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Am looking for a 325e or better yet MS2,but was wondering if theres anything else I should consider that will smack me around a bit when I want to get my metal on.

 

RS1 but of course that's at a higher price point, but if you can add cash to a used RS1i I'd say it's worth it given you have the T1 anyway for more complex recordings. Grados typically have a tendency to make highly layered recordings sound like they're just throwing everything at you instead of carefully laying out a soundstage, but that said, I've always enjoyed them on blues, classic rock and jazz as they impart a more "raw" sound. For jazz, think of it more as a more raucous kind of jazz club with a lot more trumpet rather than the "smoky hotel lounge" (sic) with a lot of sax that Schiit uses in the Valhalla blurb.

 

There's the PS500 also but personally I still prefer the RS1. 

 

[Me x3]

Have you tried the T90?

 

[Monsterzero]

nah,nobody is going to offer me a T90 for HD600 swap.Cash is tight so I cant do HD600s+$ right now.

I already have T1s and I find them too polite for metal,and while the T90s are a more fun headphone,I find them more relaxed than T1s.

 

[Asr]

"When compared to T1 & HD800, ATH-R70x is not as fast sounding as those flagships, and not the best choice for extremely fast pace & complex music. But regular pace music, pop and jazz, sounds gorgeous on ATH-R70x."
Do your experiences with R70x match up with this?

I use quite a few songs to test various headphones for their ability to hack and slay their way thru my type of music.

On Parasite Inc. "Pulse of the Dead" If the pace @:30 mark sounds articulate and well defined I consider that to be a "fast" enough headphone.If on the other hand the drums come out as a singular blur,as opposed to detailed strikes,then i consider that to be a mark of "bloat" and slow.Ideally I wanna hear the drum strikes,the rumble of the bass and the guitar work each articulated,(which T1s do)but also hear the aggression and feel the midbass(T1s do not)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St6ZzLMMVe4

I get that the T1 is a much more expensive headphone than HD600s,Grado 225e or 325e,and the R70x,and frankly the T1 is a great headphone for most if not all types of music,but Id like a little more midbass and a less "polite" sound,to go with the speed.

 
Well you mentioned "classic" rock & metal earlier, which I'd assumed meant 60s to 80s rock & 80s metal. Didn't think you meant anything more modern like death metal until you linked that YouTube vid.
 
But that doesn't change my recommendation all that much. Although I wasn't familiar with Parasite Inc, I listen to quite a bit of metal too, most of it relatively modern (post-2000, but I also listen to a handful of bands from the 90s) and I've found the R70x to play everything very well, from In Flames, Megadeth, and Machine Head, to more modern bands like Periphery, Trivium, and Keep of Kalessin. It's certainly articulate enough for fast metal, as well as electronica which is another big genre for me.
 
That said, this line in one of your other posts: "wondering if theres anything else I should consider that will smack me around a bit when I want to get my metal on" makes me unsure that you'd completely like the R70x. Although it is more upfront- and impolite-sounding than the the HD600, there are two headphones I think of more, considering that line and your music preferences—either the Audio-Technica MSR7 (which is far and away one of the best headphones I've heard for fast metal), or the Audio-Technica AD2000 (unfortunately out of production). In fact, I listened to that YouTube vid on my AD2000 just now and it was as awesome as I thought it would be, it was just pure viciousness and shredded that track like the monster it is.

I think you'd love either the MSR7 or AD2000 for metal specifically—it doesn't even matter which one you get because they're equally capable with metal, but if you can find a used AD2000 you should snap that up because it's so unique. The only "problem" with the MSR7 and AD2000 is that neither have a lot of mid-bass, but don't let that stop you. Both of them are perfectly capable of tearing into metal music and figuratively throwing it at your face.
 
As far as that line you quoted, I definitely disagree with it in two aspects: (1) I previously owned both the T1 and HD800 and thought both of them sounded slow, the T1 moreso than the HD800, and (2) The R70x is perfectly fine for fast music, and metal in particular. Not that many "reviewers" on Head-Fi actually listen to contemporary metal either, and I do, so you and I have that in common.

 
 
Btw to quote your post #1 again:
"So I need something around the same price of HD600s that pair well with my WA2 amp" > this could be the R70x
"Are easy to drive and dont require an amp" > this could be either the MSR7 or AD2000

 

[Me x3]

 
 

Spoiler: (...)

Well you mentioned "classic" rock & metal earlier, which I'd assumed meant 60s to 80s rock & 80s metal. Didn't think you meant anything more modern like death metal until you linked that YouTube vid.
 
But that doesn't change my recommendation all that much. Although I wasn't familiar with Parasite Inc, I listen to quite a bit of metal too, most of it relatively modern (post-2000, but I also listen to a handful of bands from the 90s) and I've found the R70x to play everything very well, from In Flames, Megadeth, and Machine Head, to more modern bands like Periphery, Trivium, and Keep of Kalessin. It's certainly articulate enough for fast metal, as well as electronica which is another big genre for me.
 
That said, this line in one of your other posts: "wondering if theres anything else I should consider that will smack me around a bit when I want to get my metal on" makes me unsure that you'd completely like the R70x. Although it is more upfront- and impolite-sounding than the the HD600, there are two headphones I think of more, considering that line and your music preferences—either the Audio-Technica MSR7 (which is far and away one of the best headphones I've heard for fast metal), or the Audio-Technica AD2000 (unfortunately out of production). In fact, I listened to that YouTube vid on my AD2000 just now and it was as awesome as I thought it would be, it was just pure viciousness and shredded that track like the monster it is.

I think you'd love either the MSR7 or AD2000 for metal specifically—it doesn't even matter which one you get because they're equally capable with metal, but if you can find a used AD2000 you should snap that up because it's so unique. The only "problem" with the MSR7 and AD2000 is that neither have a lot of mid-bass, but don't let that stop you. Both of them are perfectly capable of tearing into metal music and figuratively throwing it at your face.
 

As far as that line you quoted, I definitely disagree with it in two aspects: (1) I previously owned both the T1 and HD800 and thought both of them sounded slow, the T1 moreso than the HD800, and (2) The R70x is perfectly fine for fast music, and metal in particular. Not that many "reviewers" on Head-Fi actually listen to contemporary metal either, and I do, so you and I have that in common.

 
 
Btw to quote your post #1 again:
"So I need something around the same price of HD600s that pair well with my WA2 amp" > this could be the R70x
"Are easy to drive and dont require an amp" > this could be either the MSR7 or AD2000

I think fast and slow are two of the most tricky words around.
 
Can you explain what fast mean to you in objective terms?
(Frequency Response, Harmonic Distortion, other kind of distortion, CSD, ... )
 
If not, can you at least expand your take on those concepts (fast/slow)?
 
I appreciate the clarification.