[headband]

obviously, the title for this post is sensational. every group will have it's group-think here and there, and there are all types of individuals in a group. however, r/headphones in my experience has generally been a place where I'm shut down for sharing my subjective experiences. I feel like acceptable opinions for r/headphones are limited to:

• abstractly speaking: higher priced things can only be a waste of money, snake oil, or disappointing. no sharing favorable opinions of these things. only snobs and gatekeepers like more expensive gear.
• measurements are the only thing that matters. good measurements mean good sound, period. there's no such thing as better quality sound between things if the measurements are close. you think better audio comes from something with worse measurements?!? well then you obviously love snake oil and don't know anything about what sounds 'good'.
• you are allowed and encouraged to say how budget headphones are just as good or better than more expensive ones, but never the other way around.
• chi-fi dacs and amps are always as good or better than [whatever]. if you disagree, then you will need to prove it by submitting to a double blind test under laboratory conditions. oh you agree? 500 up votes for you then, no questions asked.
• posts saying you can't tell a difference between budget and hi-fi sound at all. now you're getting it, yes yes yes more of that please.

I'm not much better for generalizing an entire group, but for a subreddit that's supposedly based on a love of something (headphones) it is very specific about where and what that love is applied to.

 

[the1andonly]

every communication medium is going to reward different things. this forum is sponsored so of course, the conspiracy theorists (and sensationalists; which somehow thrive on reddit) say it's because of that we claim to hear the difference.... There is no critical thought of if it, that it is not cause and effect the other way around, because we can tell the difference the forum accepts sponsors.

The argument is over before you even ask did you try several high end headphones with high end and well reviewed DAC/amp's and lossless source... The resounding answer most of the time is a non answer; asking you to post measurement proof there is a difference. BTW this is by people who recommend low end audiophile gear that measures marginally better that consumer-grade, many of which are both cheaper and have closer to harman FR responses. The irony is on full display, they want audiophile gear and accept the benefits but only to a price point they feel backed by "measurements"....


There is a name for this -> debatelord/pseudo-intellectual

they will beat you over the head with pseudoscience unless you know the fallacy to every point they post and can likely cite some research to that effect, their incorrectly interpreted data in a graph format will over-ride something a 16 year old kid can tell by A/B(oh please my bad! A/B/Xing)ing headphones.... That is unless you can not only educate someone from a babies level of audio understanding to an advanced audiophile but also undo deep-rooted and basic misunderstanding and "peak of mount stupid" overconfidence from the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not just a waste of time, it's infuriating, you need the patience of Ghandi. Oh and I have tried this, it still wont work for many who want to think they are guru's, you can out logic them at every turn and it will still devolve into full fallacy name-calling or accusations at best.

The simple thing here is that they want to believe they are getting a good deal... They have spent time looking at things that either aren't true or don't mean what they think they do by people who literally do not allow dissent of their opinion by the swarms of other science-oriented audio reviewers and publishers and whose whole schtick is to act as if they are the dissenting opinion they refuse to allow.

If you want to own them simply ask them if they have an audio store with units in the store you can listen to. Ask them if they honestly went there and listened to them, some will say yes and maybe they aren't lying, for whatever reason the difference wasn't notable to them, but the vast majority haven't simply made a trip to a high end audio store, which are peppered all over the world and tried the thing they dismiss. You still won't win, the forum is their culture, and theirs is long and embedded, anyone who would agree with you had long ago been driven off, so there is no way to make them act reasonable and to them unless you have a graph or chart you aren't acting reasonable but just ask them if they tried something in person, hear most of them say no, and chuckle and move on.

 

[SilverEars]

There's a reason why forum got split into different forums. It's because people have different philosophies on audio, and it creates quarrels and sometimes a single forum has difficulty dictating what kind of mindset to cater to. Therefore, people would group up and go to forums with folks with similar mindsets. Whoever runs the forum, and they want a bit of control of the forum, their mindset will likely dictate what direction a forum goes, and what it caters to.

In some ways, audio is like religion. There are beliefs, and preachers, and there are folks that are firm into the beliefs.

What people believe also has dependency on how much they have experienced in the hobby. If you are new, something sounding sophisticated with verbiage of 'objective,' or 'scientific' would be the real truth. As we live in this world, we know that's not how the world works.

The thing is: If a person cannot hear a difference, he/she will most likely think others would be the same (or suspicious that others are lying). So, they would be inclined to concepts that tells you by measurements what the differences are (it's most likely due to them not hearing a difference themselves, so they need something firm to know the differences.).

If a person hears a difference (strongly believes that they are) and measurements contradicts what he/she feels is 'good' sound, they are more inclined to be a 'subjectivist.' It's just how it goes due to human nature. Intelligence and beliefs are two separate matters. You can be a subjectivists and highly intelligent.

There's also the issue of the label of 'subjectivist' vs 'objectivist.' One label makes it sound like they are the truth, but that not necessarily the case. You can be dumb objectivist.

I've read post of intelligent 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists' that are very rare.

I'm thinking that there are 'subjectivists' that do not hear a difference as well, and they write bogus impressions. lol They are probably a lot more of them than we think they are. I'm very surprised at how people just make up stuff.

 

[cplus44]

I stopped visiting that subreddit when one day I was browsing and some guy said that arya and susvara are pretty much the same except for a 2k dip or something and theres no audible difference between them because theyre pretty much the same headphone and he got a bunch of upvotes, go to check his post history and he was looking for recommendations to upgrade his only pair of $75 headphones.

 

[SilverEars]

I stopped visiting that subreddit when one day I was browsing and some guy said that arya and susvara are pretty much the same except for a 2k dip or something and theres no audible difference between them because theyre pretty much the same headphone and he got a bunch of upvotes, go to check his post history and he was looking for recommendations to upgrade his only pair of $75 headphones.

Just like everywhere else, people make assumptions without practical experience. I find measurements serves a purpose, but not a replacement for actually hearing the product.

 

[Elegiac]

I went to an expensive hifi shop and demoed a Bower & Wilkins P5.

It was aiight.

 

[spacecase25]

That is all of reddit. r/Audiophile is awful as well. Honestly everywhere on reddit. All folks there are interested in is telling people they're wrong. They have zero interest in having a discussion of any kind, just waiting for the opportunity to tell someone they're wrong. It even gets to the point of arguing over something as silly as word choice that doesn't take away from the point at all.

There was a time when I used to enjoy participating in discussions on reddit (around 2010 or so), and now it's just the most toxic, worthless community on the internet. I rarely go on anymore at this point.

They're persistent too. I'm pretty sure they have nothing better to do with their time than play keyboard warrior. I had to tell one edgelord he gave off school shooter vibes the other day just to get him to f-off.

 

[Spareribs]

In my opinion the audiophile community is good. Personally I do not really like the guitar community that much and tend to avoid interaction. ….( to be honest I can’t stand a lot of guitar enthusiasts even though I play guitar)

I do like the drummers forums since I’ve been teaching myself how to play drums. Love drum gear.

I would avoid piano and classical music forums though since a lot of them don’t seem to enjoy life.

When I was in music school I had a tendency to dislike trumpet players.

But overall, I really enjoy the audiophile community because it’s fun to nerd out on silly components and a form of escapism

 

[Derivative]

What I disliked most about r/headphones when I started my audio journey 18 months ago was I felt it taught me nothing. I wasn't learning anything new from people there and instead they seem to thrive on condescension.
Head-Fi and ASR on the other hand, regardless what you think of either, you can't deny you'll learn A LOT about audio from all the experience members have. This is what tipped me into really enjoying and eventually loving the hobby.

 

[Nafets666]

The reddit page is unavailable now, something to do with reddit's change of policy. I've just realised that this is my first post here...