[number1sixerfan]

By all means take your time and share when you feel like it. I absalute love reading through this journey you're on. I think it may well end up being what either pushes me over the edge to sgl ot maybe cools me on the idea in favor of trying to push my conventional cans a bit further

I really appreciate the kind words. I'm glad it's been helpful to some. And that's always a tough decision, especially when you have a high quality group of headphones like you do. Good luck making the decision lol, but happy to help if I ever can.

 

[Sajid Amit]

I really appreciate the kind words. I'm glad it's been helpful to some. And that's always a tough decision, especially when you have a high quality group of headphones like you do. Good luck making the decision lol, but happy to help if I ever can.

Definitely, helpful. Now, hearing that the bass impact trails other estats, I am less inclined to jump on it, I have to say.

Loving estats more and more though, with some DAC rolling.

 

[slefr]

I don’t find the SGL lacking in the bass département. It could be due to my preferences of quality over quantity : while the Abyss TC has more quantity than the SGL in the sub bass department, using the trick of the bass port, I enjoy more the SGL because of its even better bass quality.

YMMV as usual and it is to everyone’s preferences but I’m not sure we can say that the SGL is bass shy overall.

I have not listened to the SR009 recently and it was amplified by the SRM-727 when I owned it so maybe not the best combo for subbass… I can imagine that it is close to the SGL in those registers even if anticipate the SRX9000 to be better and closer to the SGL thanks to the larger diaphragm.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Definitely, helpful. Now, hearing that the bass impact trails other estats, I am less inclined to jump on it, I have to say.

Loving estats more and more though, with some DAC rolling.

It is only significantly bested by the 007 and it is more of an anomaly with a ton of hard hitting, albeit less accurate. The CRBN has a slight edge in impact over the 009/SGL, but it's marginal. As I mentioned in the x9000 thread recently, they are all estat traditionally lighter. It is just what stats do. I mentioned in another that the LCD-5's bass (which some have said is lighter in nature, especially over the LCD-4), is definitely, noticeably harder hitting than the CRBN--Audeze mentioned the same I believe. So I do want to make it clear that these three are all in the same general performance bucket, with the CRBN having a bit better impact.

What I did want to correct is that it wasn't significantly better than the 009, which was my initial read on the BHSE my first four or so months. They are both in line with traditional estats. Either way, unless bass is your primary concern when it comes to music (which I would avoid estats altogether if true), I would try to find a way to audition them, as they are certainly a step up above every estat in every other category. I.e. the 009 is a clear step above the CRBN performance wise, and the SGL a clear step above it. I wouldn't trade down from the largely better layering, greater detail and refinement wow factor for slightly harder hitting bass.

I think the real challenge would be for someone unfamiliar with stats coming from something like a TC. Could be a non-starter for someone like that, but again would apply to all estats.

 

[Sajid Amit]

It is only significantly bested by the 007 and it is more of an anomaly with a ton of hard hitting, albeit less accurate. The CRBN has a slight edge in impact over the 009/SGL, but it's marginal. As I mentioned in the x9000 thread recently, they are all estat traditionally lighter. It is just what stats do. I mentioned in another that the LCD-5's bass (which some have said is lighter in nature, especially over the LCD-4), is definitely, noticeably harder hitting than the CRBN--Audeze mentioned the same I believe. So I do want to make it clear that these three are all in the same general performance bucket, with the CRBN having a bit better impact.

What I did want to correct is that it wasn't significantly better than the 009, which was my initial read on the BHSE my first four or so months. They are both in line with traditional estats. Either way, unless bass is your primary concern when it comes to music (which I would avoid estats altogether if true), I would try to find a way to audition them, as they are certainly a step up above every estat in every other category. I.e. the 009 is a clear step above the CRBN performance wise, and the SGL a clear step above it. I wouldn't trade down from the largely better layering, greater detail and refinement wow factor for slightly harder hitting bass.

I think the real challenge would be for someone unfamiliar with stats coming from something like a TC. Could be a non-starter for someone like that, but again would apply to all estats.

I understand. Took me a while to appreciate the 009S and the 007. I, in fact, sold off and then bought back the 009S.

I realized that once you give yourself some time with either, and are mentally able to overcome comparisons, with certain genres, estats can be shockingly immersive. And its not just one or two specific genres. A diverse range of artists, from Clapton to Porcupine Tree, works wonderfully well with estats. You are just sucked into the delicious delicateness. DAC-Amp synergies are important, as is well known, for stats.

I was also thinking how I just love the spread of sonic signatures encompassed by the 007 and the 009/009S. Stax did something rather brilliant here, by creating HPs that sound so different.

The CRBN being a halfway house between the 009/009S and the 007, whilst having a bass far less impactful than the 007 and detail and speed less than the 009/009S, does sound uninteresting to me, to be blunt.

The Shang SR sounded like the perfect headphone, from early impressions, estat or otherwise. So I imagined it would have a higher quality and quantity of bass than the 009/009S. But nothing is perfect quite clearly, lol. But if the SR, as you put it, has better imaging, details, and other technical and perhaps tonal attributes than the 009/009S, then, yeah, that still sounds interesting, I suppose.

But given value and build-related concerns most have at some level, including myself, the attribute that the SR bass is probably at the same level as a SR009/S, does discourage a bit.

This is my subjective take only. But I guess I would have jumped on the SR if it was more of an unequivocal home-run. Not that this perspective should apply to anyone else.

All said and done, I am 100% sure I’ll get it sooner or later. Lol. But later seems more likely, now.

TLDR: Your impressions are valuable @number1sixerfan. Keep them coming.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Also, one more thought.. a bit future forward. And really, I hate that I haven't gotten my hands on the x9000 yet because I can't compare or confirm, but based on the impressions in its thread, it sounds like it improves upon the 009 in similar ways that the SGL does. Also sounds like the bass is in the same relative performance group. Leads me to believe that it's going to come really close to the SGL for a huge fraction of the price. At that point, if that's the case and confirmed, I think you're going to see a huge drop in SGL interest given nearly double the price. That's not great for the SGL, but I think it's awesome if so for users, as it brings that level of performance at a much better/accessible price point. That's just a hunch, mainly based off what I'm interpreting at the moment.. we shall see and I'm super anxious to get my hands on it.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I understand. Took me a while to appreciate the 009S and the 007. I, in fact, sold off and then bought back the 009S.

I realized that once you give yourself some time with either, and are mentally able to overcome comparisons, with certain genres, estats can be shockingly immersive. And its not just one or two specific genres. A diverse range of artists, from Clapton to Porcupine Tree, works wonderfully well with estats. You are just sucked into the delicious delicateness. DAC-Amp synergies are important, as is well known, for stats.

I was also thinking how I just love the spread of sonic signatures encompassed by the 007 and the 009/009S. Stax did something rather brilliant here, by creating HPs that sound so different.

The CRBN being a halfway house between the 009/009S and the 007, whilst having a bass far less impactful than the 007 and detail and speed less than the 009/009S, does sound uninteresting to me, to be blunt.

The Shang SR sounded like the perfect headphone, from early impressions, estat or otherwise. So I imagined it would have a higher quality and quantity of bass than the 009/009S. But nothing is perfect quite clearly, lol. But if the SR, as you put it, has better imaging, details, and other technical and perhaps tonal attributes than the 009/009S, then, yeah, that still sounds interesting, I suppose.

But given value and build-related concerns most have at some level, including myself, the attribute that the SR bass is probably at the same level as a SR009/S, does discourage a bit.

This is my subjective take only. But I guess I would have jumped on the SR if it was more of an unequivocal home-run. Not that this perspective should apply to anyone else.

TLDR: Your impressions are valuable @number1sixerfan. Keep them coming.

Definitely agree on the valuable contrast of the 007/009, especially when both are well amped. I would also say and confirm that the CRBN is a nice somewhat compromise of the two, but again more tonality wise--bass wise CRBN trends far closer to the 009. But I do think many people are going to love the CRBN and it's an excellent first estat for almost anyone in my opinion. It's just really smooth and really fun with a good deal of technical strength.

On the last part, I've always said that there is no perfect headphone, but the SGL is the closest I've come to it. And it still is. I had not at any point thought about giving up the TC or Sr1a until now and it's only because of it after a lot of long sessions with all three, including another last night. So I think that speaks to how highly it performs.

I think what tends to happen when I talk to people, both on forum and in PM, many times due to the price tag of the SGL, people are consciously or subconsciously looking for reasons to rule it out.. which makes sense. The price tag is ridiculous and I've covered that plenty of times lol. But I would strongly discourage people from doing so. I would do whatever you can, to just go hear it for yourself. Just based on anything else on the market, with a good amount of demo time, I'm convinced that just about any experienced head-fier would walk away thinking it's a home run. But again, 1) I would do anything you can to see for yourself; 2) again hopefully the x9000 joins that same category at a far fraction of the price.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Definitely agree on the valuable contrast of the 007/009, especially when both are well amped. I would also say and confirm that the CRBN is a nice somewhat compromise of the two, but again more tonality wise--bass wise CRBN trends far closer to the 009. But I do think many people are going to love the CRBN and it's an excellent first estat for almost anyone in my opinion. It's just really smooth and really fun with a good deal of technical strength.

On the last part, I've always said that there is no perfect headphone, but the SGL is the closest I've come to it. And it still is. I had not at any point thought about giving up the TC or Sr1a until now and it's only because of it after a lot of long sessions with all three, including another last night. So I think that speaks to how highly it performs.

I think what tends to happen when I talk to people, both on forum and in PM, many times due to the price tag of the SGL, people are consciously or subconsciously looking for reasons to rule it out.. which makes sense. The price tag is ridiculous and I've covered that plenty of times lol. But I would strongly discourage people from doing so. I would do whatever you can, to just go hear it for yourself. Just based on anything else on the market, with a good amount of demo time, I'm convinced that just about any experienced head-fier would walk away thinking it's a home run. But again, 1) I would do anything you can to see for yourself; 2) again hopefully the x9000 joins that same category at a far fraction of the price.

Yup. You got it. The price tag is a big factor. But its not the only one.

Of course there is the massive issue of build and likeness with its colonial cousins, lol.

Also, for me, if a 12K headphone (street price) took what the TC did and added a sweeter midrange, I would jump on it. You know what I mean?

In any case, good talk.

Appreciate the heads-up about the X9K.

Hope you get your hands on it soon.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Yup. You got it. The price tag is a big factor. But its not the only one.

Of course there is the massive issue of build and likeness with its colonial cousins, lol.

Also, for me, if a 12K headphone (street price) took what the TC did and added a sweeter midrange, I would jump on it. You know what I mean?

In any case, good talk.

Appreciate the heads-up about the X9K.

Hope you get your hands on it soon.

I totally get you. And especially on the build quality. Definitely will do, and as always the discussion has been a pleasure my friend

 

[VandyMan]

If you are after a realistic tonal balance across the frequency spectrum and a headphone that works extremely well with almost all genres (maybe not the most bass heavy genres), I think the CRBN is significantly better than the 009. If you want that "estat sound," the 009 wins.

As far as bass, I agree that the difference between the two is not huge, but I hear the CRBN as besting the 009 by a small but significant margin, especially with EQ. I don't have an 007 around to compare and have not heard it in a few years, but from memory the quantity of the bass is pretty good, but the quality falls short of the 009/CRBN.

I don't agree with characterizing the CRBN as a starter estat (obviously, since I feel its overall performance is better than the 009). I'd recommend the L300 or L700 for that, based mainly on price. The L700 is not that far from the 009. Or a used 007, which runs about $1500 or so.

 

[eskamobob1]

Also, for me, if a 12K headphone (street price) took what the TC did and added a sweeter midrange, I would jump on it. You know what I mean?

I was going to the same for me but making the susvara bigger and airier stage wise, but the more I think about it the more I think thats actualy a pretty damn similar can to what you are describing

 

[eskamobob1]

I don't agree with characterizing the CRBN as a starter estat (obviously, since I feel its overall performance is better than the 009). I'd recommend the L300 or L700 for that, based mainly on price. The L700 is not that far from the 009. Or a used 007, which runs about $1500 or so.

I think you misunderstood why he said that. Obv a 4.5k can is not a traditional "starting point". I think he more of just meant that it would be a much easier transition from conventional drivers due to the way it is voiced as compared with something like a 900

 

[number1sixerfan]

If you are after a realistic tonal balance across the frequency spectrum and a headphone that works extremely well with almost all genres (maybe not the most bass heavy genres), I think the CRBN is significantly better than the 009. If you want that "estat sound," the 009 wins.

As far as bass, I agree that the difference between the two is not huge, but I hear the CRBN as besting the 009 by a small but significant margin, especially with EQ. I don't have an 007 around to compare and have not heard it in a few years, but from memory the quantity of the bass is pretty good, but the quality falls short of the 009/CRBN.

I don't agree with characterizing the CRBN as a starter estat (obviously, since I feel its overall performance is better than the 009). I'd recommend the L300 or L700 for that, based mainly on price. The L700 is not that far from the 009. Or a used 007, which runs about $1500 or so.

That first statement is spot on. I think even more important than the marginal bass improvement, it's the tonal balance that really makes the CRBN shine. You can listen to it for hours and it's just extremely pleasurable overall. Also agree with your next statement on the bass.

On the last part, I didn't mean starter estat in that way. It's certainly a TOTL headphone and I think it's really good--and again I am enjoying it a lot. I meant that for people that may have been turned off by stats in the past, especially for brightness; or, others coming from conventional TOTL systems, I think it would make sense to start with the CRBN. In the past, I always suggested the 009/007. The CRBN has changed that a bit for me.

I was going to the same for me but making the susvara bigger and airier stage wise, but the more I think about it the more I think thats actualy a pretty damn similar can to what you are describing

And this is one reason I went back and forth in the discussion earlier. I want to be really clear, as I think people are looking for different things. If by taking the TC up a notch (or even trying to just match it), you're referring to bass performance, the SGL absolutely and without question, WILL NOT do that lol.

But "giving the Susvara a 'bigger sound' and airier stage", with improved layering and detail, that is EXACTLY what it does take up a very considerable notch (in comparison to Susvara here). As far as the TC, the biggest improvements are 1) just a far better midrange--it's the Susvara's midrange on steroids with a less calm/polite manner/tone; 2) greater weight and texture to the sound; realism. I have guitars and a piano here and the best way to describe this is that a pluck of a guitar or strike of a piano key sounds more realistic with greater texture and fleshing out of the sound--same with vocals. 3) more cohesive sound, mainly due to the midrange recession of the TC. All of these improvements also apply to the Sr1a, but it's even more pronounced due to the Sr1a's lighter sound. Especially on point #2. On point #3 the cohesiveness applies, but comes at the tradeoff of the Sr1a's openness--so the SGL doesn't sound as open and sounds perhaps a bit less clear, but sounds a bit more cohesive overall. (again, just had a long session with all three last night, and my impressions have stayed the same with these three)

It takes the technicalities of the TC/Sr1a, improves on many and adds a level of magic/refinement that isn't present in either. I would like to keep the Sr1a on hand to compare against the x9000, but I will be selling the TC and LCD-5 in the next coming weeks. Lastly, the thing that frustrates me about the TC is that if it weren't for the midrange, it would overall be nearly unbeatable.

 

[VandyMan]

On the last part, I didn't mean starter estat in that way. It's certainly a TOTL headphone and I think it's really good--and again I am enjoying it a lot. I meant that for people that may have been turned off by stats in the past, especially for brightness; or, others coming from conventional TOTL systems, I think it would make sense to start with the CRBN. In the past, I always suggested the 009/007. The CRBN has changed that a bit for me.

Got ya. I agree with that.

 

[VandyMan]

I would like to keep the Sr1a on hand to compare against the x9000, but I will be selling the TC and LCD-5 in the next coming weeks.

Will you keep your HE-60? I'll probably keep mine because I love the midrange, but I don't think it will get much use anymore.