EuropeanEar
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100% agreed.
Power conditioners/regenerators - let's talk about clean power
- Thread starter Jozurr
- Start date
100% agreed.
Earlier I wrote:
I finally read just a little more about isolating the ground from your one or two dedicated circuits and your circuit breaker box. A couple of points were made that others might elaborate upon, but here is enough partial understanding for me to continue to pursue running dedicated circuits utilizing a "specially formulated" 12-2 plus ground wire (for example, DH Labs makes one which sells for $8/LF), terminating with Furutech, or similar, receptacles. BUT, I feel I must abandon the idea of isolating my receptacle's ground from the main common ground in my circuit breaker box (the one to which every other noise-introducing circuit in my whole house is connected). (I don't understand all of this, but "common" seems to be the imperative term here.)
1) I don't always do what the authorities recommend, sometimes they know little about what they are telling me to do. In this case, in America it seems to be against the electrical code in probably every state and municipality to not have all the power receptacles (and everything else) fed by one's circuit breaker box grounded to the common ground for the whole house, contained in that same circuit breaker box.
1b) Sometimes I "do it anyway." In this case, IF lightning struck my mid-priced suburban house and IF it burned down and IF the insurance company balked at paying because the cause of the fire might have been attributed to having two separate grounds for the electrical system in my house - I'll take a risk now and again, but, even in the pursuit of better sound, perhaps not for the entire value of my home.
2) I didn't spend enough time learning enough to write a doctoral dissertation about this, but it seems if the ground for a dedicated power supply for one's headphone system is not grounded back to the circuit breaker box - the circuit breaker for your dedicated line won't trip as it should. Under extreme loads it might trip, but by then you've fried between $1000 and $10,000 worth of electronics.
3) Kind of the way I understand it: if lightning does strike your house and a large (usually colossal) current runs through your house's wiring, and the dedicated line is not grounded to the same grounding location in your circuit breaker box as all the other wiring in the house, to "close the loop" the current will try and travel between the two ground rods (which may be 30' or 100' apart) - without success. No effective common ground, large electrical malfunction, some have written it is statistically not a bad way to accidentally get one's self killed, or like I said before, at the least burn down your house.
Point three is probably not 100% technically correct, but I did get the idea that having a power supply coming from one location and not grounding it back to that same location introduces a statistically significant - as opposed to one in a million - risk to both your life and your pocketbook.
SO! I didn't read on about this possible work-around as I'm pushed for time (not that it shows here):
Perhaps one could run an additional ground wire from their dedicated duplex receptacle to a new ground rod, in addition to leaving the existing ground wire to my breaker box in place. Before I install my dedicated line I'll read more. Seemingly though, the simple solution in hi-fi audio is never viable; actually workable solutions are almost always more complicated and a lot more expensive.
CONCLUSION: If you are considering ways to "better" ground your dedicated duplex outlet, grounding the receptacle to its own copper ground rod instead of the breaker box introduces risks you really need to understand, and overcome (if that is even possible), before proceeding.
Here is a link to an article that I found interesting - even the author, and Nordost, seem to have backed away from installing a separate ground ONLY for a dedicated circuit. The sad part, like all other "tweaks" for high-end audio, there does seem to be something "there" relating to improving your system's sound by finding and implementing ($$) a better way to ground your system.
http://nordost.com/blog/the-well-gr...arned-to-improve-my-sound-and-love-the-earth/
Nordost makes a QBase and QCore product that might address some of this; but right now I'm too depressed to look to see what they might cost. I'm saying closer to the $10K I predict than the $0.10K I estimate my isolated ground solution would have cost.
Upon FUTHER REVIEW, and as my younger sister used to occasionally tell her children (and me for that matter), "DON'T DO IT!"
I finally read just a little more about isolating the ground from your one or two dedicated circuits and your circuit breaker box. A couple of points were made that others might elaborate upon, but here is enough partial understanding for me to continue to pursue running dedicated circuits utilizing a "specially formulated" 12-2 plus ground wire (for example, DH Labs makes one which sells for $8/LF), terminating with Furutech, or similar, receptacles. BUT, I feel I must abandon the idea of isolating my receptacle's ground from the main common ground in my circuit breaker box (the one to which every other noise-introducing circuit in my whole house is connected). (I don't understand all of this, but "common" seems to be the imperative term here.)
1) I don't always do what the authorities recommend, sometimes they know little about what they are telling me to do. In this case, in America it seems to be against the electrical code in probably every state and municipality to not have all the power receptacles (and everything else) fed by one's circuit breaker box grounded to the common ground for the whole house, contained in that same circuit breaker box.
1b) Sometimes I "do it anyway." In this case, IF lightning struck my mid-priced suburban house and IF it burned down and IF the insurance company balked at paying because the cause of the fire might have been attributed to having two separate grounds for the electrical system in my house - I'll take a risk now and again, but, even in the pursuit of better sound, perhaps not for the entire value of my home.
2) I didn't spend enough time learning enough to write a doctoral dissertation about this, but it seems if the ground for a dedicated power supply for one's headphone system is not grounded back to the circuit breaker box - the circuit breaker for your dedicated line won't trip as it should. Under extreme loads it might trip, but by then you've fried between $1000 and $10,000 worth of electronics.
3) Kind of the way I understand it: if lightning does strike your house and a large (usually colossal) current runs through your house's wiring, and the dedicated line is not grounded to the same grounding location in your circuit breaker box as all the other wiring in the house, to "close the loop" the current will try and travel between the two ground rods (which may be 30' or 100' apart) - without success. No effective common ground, large electrical malfunction, some have written it is statistically not a bad way to accidentally get one's self killed, or like I said before, at the least burn down your house.
Point three is probably not 100% technically correct, but I did get the idea that having a power supply coming from one location and not grounding it back to that same location introduces a statistically significant - as opposed to one in a million - risk to both your life and your pocketbook.
SO! I didn't read on about this possible work-around as I'm pushed for time (not that it shows here):
Perhaps one could run an additional ground wire from their dedicated duplex receptacle to a new ground rod, in addition to leaving the existing ground wire to my breaker box in place. Before I install my dedicated line I'll read more. Seemingly though, the simple solution in hi-fi audio is never viable; actually workable solutions are almost always more complicated and a lot more expensive.
CONCLUSION: If you are considering ways to "better" ground your dedicated duplex outlet, grounding the receptacle to its own copper ground rod instead of the breaker box introduces risks you really need to understand, and overcome (if that is even possible), before proceeding.
Here is a link to an article that I found interesting - even the author, and Nordost, seem to have backed away from installing a separate ground ONLY for a dedicated circuit. The sad part, like all other "tweaks" for high-end audio, there does seem to be something "there" relating to improving your system's sound by finding and implementing ($$) a better way to ground your system.
http://nordost.com/blog/the-well-gr...arned-to-improve-my-sound-and-love-the-earth/
Nordost makes a QBase and QCore product that might address some of this; but right now I'm too depressed to look to see what they might cost. I'm saying closer to the $10K I predict than the $0.10K I estimate my isolated ground solution would have cost.
Last edited:
fliz
100+ Head-Fier
What if you add a second ground bar INSIDE the breaker box and have it go to it's own ground rod right next to the other one?
This was what I just asked a bunch of different electricians quotes for earlier this week. I still haven't gotten an answer.
saddleup
100+ Head-Fier
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Power products are like cables. The price is often not a reflection of performance. And there is a lot of snake oil available for large amounts of money. If you want no nonsense power conditioning I'd recommend Brickwall, https://www.brickwall.com/collections/surge-protectors-home-theater-hdtv.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zerosurge-and-brickwall-is-there-a-difference.834846/
The best value IMO and what I use are Powervar transformer based conditioners. They are always available used on ebay for cents on the dollar. I have 2 8.3s in my system.
https://powervar.com/standard-power-conditioners/ https://powervar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Standard-PC-Sheet-Catalog.pdf
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zerosurge-and-brickwall-is-there-a-difference.834846/
The best value IMO and what I use are Powervar transformer based conditioners. They are always available used on ebay for cents on the dollar. I have 2 8.3s in my system.
https://powervar.com/standard-power-conditioners/ https://powervar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Standard-PC-Sheet-Catalog.pdf
Last edited:
Speedskater
500+ Head-Fier
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Exactly never, ever add a ground rod that is not connected to the other ground rods near the service entrance/main breaker panel. While you can add as many ground rods as you like they must all be connected together at only one spot and that's near the main breaker panel. (it doesn't have to be a star connection, they can be daisy chained).
Ground rods are for protection during thunderstorms and other problems. I was just reading about Recreational Vehicles that need a ground rod in case of a hot skin problem.
Ground rods have nothing to do with day-to-day AC power quality. Planet Earth is not a sink or sump for bad electricity.
Dobrescu George
Reviewer: AudiophileHeaven
I made an in-depth video review about the BAC400 from Plixir, if you need a nice power conditioner that can output 400 Watts, it should be really good!
geoffalter11
Headphoneus Supremus
Nice review. I have a Monster Pro 1000 conditioner. Does anyone on this thread have experience with it and whether there is a lot of improvement from something else? I am sure if I want to spend several thousands I will find more improvements, but at what point does it just become placebo? I want my system to be the very best it can be for what I can afford.
Dobrescu George
Reviewer: AudiophileHeaven
What system do you have? As a rule of thumb, the more power it consumes, the more sensitive it tends to be to power conditioners. Your Monster Pro 1000 is pretty great already, should have helped quite a lot.
The stuff from Plixir is top quality, but if you have a system that has high consumption , you need to go with something else than BAC400, it has only 400 wats of power at max which may not be enough
geoffalter11
Headphoneus Supremus
When I got the monster it helped a lot. Background became much quieter. My system currently consists of...
Imac running as music server
Schitt Wyrd
Vinshine R2R DAC
Cembalo Spring 1 Amp or Pathos Aurium
Dobrescu George
Reviewer: AudiophileHeaven
I made an in-depth review about the Plixir Elite BAC400 ! 
It does a lot for most of my systems, at least this seems to be my final result after months of testing it
https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...r-elite-bac-400-power-conditioner-review.html
It does a lot for most of my systems, at least this seems to be my final result after months of testing it
https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...r-elite-bac-400-power-conditioner-review.html
I got a used Musica Fool’s Gold 500 and it made a noticeable improvement. A caveat: I live in a rented place with old wiring and low-quality wall sockets.
MRHiFiReviews
Formerly MRphotography
Sponsor: The Source AV
Our latest YT video on our channel focuses on Clarus Audiophile Cables and Power Conditioners! Give it a watch and don't forget to smash the like button and leave us a comment on the video. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your weekend.
This thread could not have been better timed...
For people with experience, does a dedicated power line help more or a power conditioner/regenerator?
PS audio low key poops on conditioners but I still see many people having good results with conditioners, with popular ones from isotek and audioquest.
Anyone happen to have experience with both regenerators and conditioners?
For people with experience, does a dedicated power line help more or a power conditioner/regenerator?
PS audio low key poops on conditioners but I still see many people having good results with conditioners, with popular ones from isotek and audioquest.
Anyone happen to have experience with both regenerators and conditioners?
A representative from a power conditioner brand recommended that I purchase a 20A version of one of their products rather than the 15A version even though I have standard 15A outlets. Is that actually safe? If so, then what are the benefits of doing so?
In the same vein, would there be any benefit in going with, say, a Furman Elite-20 PF i over the Elite-15 PF i?
In the same vein, would there be any benefit in going with, say, a Furman Elite-20 PF i over the Elite-15 PF i?
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