phono stages: slee, trichord, something else?

[ian atpr]

as part of my ongoing upgrades i replaced my debut iii, with phono stage, for an RPM5, without phono stage... its not a huge problem since i use an amp with a phono input for now but my intention is to get rid of that relatively soon so im gonna need a phono stage (plus theres the sound improvement too of course)

for a budget of <£400 i can get the slee era gold v or the trichord dino (neither with its optional improved power source) - any opinions on either of these? the graham slee is difficult to audition as not a lot of places carry his stuff. or alternatively any suggestions of *similarly priced* phono stages that i may not have seen before? do keep in mind that £500 and odd isnt really the same as the £350 these ones cost though

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian atpr /img/forum/go_quote.gif for a budget of <£400 i can get the slee era gold v or the trichord dino (neither with its optional improved power source) - any opinions on either of these? the graham slee is difficult to audition as not a lot of places carry his stuff. or alternatively any suggestions of *similarly priced* phono stages that i may not have seen before? do keep in mind that £500 and odd isnt really the same as the £350 these ones cost though

The Tricord and GS have a slightly different sound signature. Trichord is more upfront and Naim/Linn-like and Slee more laid back and Arcam-like.

But I'd be tempted to get a cheaper phono stage and spend the difference on a better cart as you'll get more sound per pound that way. Have you considered the Cambridge Audio 640P from Richer Sounds? which would leave you enough for a nice MC cart like a Dynavector 20XL or AT-OC9.

 

[ssportclay]

I have to go with memepool. Get a 640P or the Pro-Ject Phono Box SE II if you want to spend a little more. You will have to spend a lot more to do even a little better.

 

[ian atpr]

ok, cheers. so having looked at some cheaper options i will definitely consider a heed audio questar instead.

but i know nowt about cartridges... grado prestige gold, ortofon 2m blue, shure m97xe, goldring 2300, even a clearaudio one made of wood. they all fall in my sorta price range, and all make very similar claims. any other recs for me in the sub-£150 range? obviously id need to go hear these in a shop first, but i may as well get some impressions to help me shortlist.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian atpr /img/forum/go_quote.gif but i know nowt about cartridges... grado prestige gold, ortofon 2m blue, shure m97xe, goldring 2300, even a clearaudio one made of wood. they all fall in my sorta price range, and all make very similar claims. any other recs for me in the sub-£150 range? obviously id need to go hear these in a shop first, but i may as well get some impressions to help me shortlist.

You'll find carts even more difficult to audition than phonostages unless you are spending over 300-400 and even then, you'll need to find a good vinyl orientated dealer to get this level of service. Walrus in Marble Arch are good guys if you're anywhere near London.
The best thing to do would be to decide what kind of sound you want from a cart based on reviews and what kind of cart is a good mechanical match to your tonearm. Once you've decided on the cart then match the phonostage with the cart and the rest of your system which you havn't mentioned....

Pro-Ject decks usually have good deals on Ortofon carts because they both are imported by Henley Designs. The RPM5 often comes bundled with an Ortofon Rhondo Red which is a nice entry level Moving coil. The Ortofon sound is traditionally pretty inoffensive and well matched to a wide range of kit although some will say it's boring.

Their new range like the aforementioned Rhondo, and 2M series are a bit more zippy though. Clearaudio are generally smooth but quite bright sounding, and the Goldring series you mention is also quite forward in the treble, whereas the Grados and Shures are on the whole more rolled off and richer sounding.

Having said that the Shure is not an ideal mechanical match to your tonearm being designed with a Lower Mass in mind and Grado's have a reputation for being noisy with certain decks so you should check this out other RPM5 owners on here.

Personally I'd go for an older Goldring 1000 series as you can still get a 1042 for 150UKP which is about the best MM cart on the market other than the new Ortofon 2M Black at about double this.

 

[ian atpr]

ok, a good detailed response there thanks. the rest of my system is in the sig, its entry level stuff but its nearly all being changed around over the coming months.
the rpm5 is new, replacing a debut iii (and it has a 2M red). the headphones and slee headphone amp will stay, the cd73 will probably stay and maybe get a fancy dac. but the amp and speakers will be changed when i can afford it.

i'll check about the grado being noisy on an rpm5, but if not the goldring sounds like it might be good. perhaps its being forward in the treble will be balanced out a bit by the heed stage giving a lot of bass... the rest of the set-up is quite neutral, which suits me fine except for one on or two 'big' sounding classical records where i do feel some more depth would be good.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian atpr /img/forum/go_quote.gif the rest of my system is in the sig, its entry level stuff but its nearly all being changed around over the coming months. the rpm5 is new, replacing a debut iii (and it has a 2M red)... the rest of the set-up is quite neutral, which suits me fine except for one on or two 'big' sounding classical records where i do feel some more depth would be good.

Sorry I missed that. Sounds like quite a nice set-up as well. I would say all that kit is on the warmer side of neutral, but it's a subjective thing. I also have an Arcam CD player, the Delta 250/BB500 which is the last two box set they made and have heard the CD73 on dem. It's very good on instrumental timbres, better than a Naim CD5i in this respect as I remember, so why not stick with that?

I think you are right to upgrade the amp though as that's definitely the weakest link. I would also be tempted to hang onto the Quads as they are capable of a lot more resolution with a better amp and front end, and spend more on the cart. The Ortofon red 2M is very good indeed and you won't get a massive upgrade for 150, although the Goldring's Fritz Geiger stylus will bring more detail for sure. I'd go for a Dynavector 10X or 20X, which will give you more detail and more realism, less Hi-Fi more musicality if you know what I mean.

 

[ian atpr]

the cd73 does seem very well thought of, and i am a big fan of the sound im getting from it for most of my music - which is mostly instrumental and/or acoustic.

but interesting what you say about the 2m red becuase, although it was in reference to a more expensive system, ive seen comments on it being garbage and well worth replacing with at least the 2m blue. i believe the red retails at about £70 and the blue more around the £150 mark... im just interested in whats out there is to have that will make the slight changes i want really. thanks for all the input.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian atpr /img/forum/go_quote.gif but interesting what you say about the 2m red becuase, although it was in reference to a more expensive system, ive seen comments on it being garbage and well worth replacing with at least the 2m blue. i believe the red retails at about £70 and the blue more around the £150 mark... im just interested in whats out there is to have that will make the slight changes i want really. thanks for all the input.

Generally with turntables the deck itself is most important, followed by the arm and then cart. So the 2M Red should sound better in your new set up than in your old because it will be under better control. That said once you have a pretty decent deck and have the mechanics right so to speak it makes sense to spend more on the cart than on the electronics downstream of it, like the phono-preamp, as a decent cart feeding a cheaper phonostage will sound better than vice versa.

Phonostages these days like the Cambridge Audio, are very good quality even at the lowest end of the market and seem to get very expensive very quickly after that because you are paying a lot for whose name is on the tin. This is not to say there isn't a huge difference between say a Linn and a NAD for instance because there is, but it's not as much difference as between an Audio Technica MM cart and a Koetsu, although the price difference is roughly similar.

Most of what I have read and heard of the Ortofon 2M carts is that the basic one (red) is very good and the top one (black) is brilliant and those in between are hit and miss and stand out far less at their respective price points. Same goes for the Rhondos actually.

 

[.coco]

Have you checked out the Pro-Ject phono stages? They are quite good, receive a lot of praise over at Audio Karma. They are very neutral, which is nice when you already have the amp and headphone distortion to deal with.

 

[mark_h]

DL-103R + 640p = Analogue heaven!

 

[jsplice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif DL-103R + 640p = Analogue heaven!

I have the regular DL-103 with the 640p, with a Clearaudio Emotion turntable and Satisfy tonearm, and they are a horrible match. I'm curious to hear what the 103 and 640p would sound like on another setup.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsplice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm curious to hear what the 103 and 640p would sound like on another setup.

waiting for the man_a.mp3

this was recorded using a DL-103 mounted on a Rega RB-250 on a Vestax direct drive feeding an old Naim NAP-32 pre-amp with an NA-323 Karma version 5 phono board. These boards were originally designed for Linn's early Supex made carts which are similarly lush sounding to the DL-103 I find. It's a bit better than the Cambridge 640p but not as much as you might image.

The 103 should sound warm and full in the bass with a rich midrange and slightly muted treble, although it measures pretty flat. The 103R mentioned above is a slightly tweaked version costing quite a bit more and sounding better balanced with a more extended treble performance.