[audiobeans]

hey, so I thought i wanted a dap but after reading a lot I heard a lot of people saying that its way too overly priced for basically only good dac amp chips and battery life. im still not sure what i want but i know i want a portable source.

the reason im attracted to daps is because its a nice all in one device that i have to admit, looks very good.

currently thinking maybe i can buy a cheap phone like the lg v series but I dont know which model to get, v30 and 40 seem the most popular, while v60 seems to have the best battery life

looking here for recommendations about anything else. I heard about a few phones from sony (xperia) but theyre quite expensive, asus too (rog or zen) they have great battery life and support "hi res" but they dont really have an sd slot

Im not going to stream on this phone, my goal is to own all my music, i can have spotify on my main phone. so its going to be a fully offline phone

Im looking for a phone that has these things:
- very good battery life like a dap, minimum 5 hours of continuous flacc 16/44.1 playback
- micro sd card slot at least one, multiple would be amazing
- not a huge device, i like compact things
- a good dac or amp chip is nice but i am open to buying a dongle dac
- can play audio to an external dac via usb c

also Im open to diy, so if you know any way to buy stuff like the akm dac chips seperately and other parts and build a small device (kind of like pi, but portable and can run actuall android), maybe if its cheaper

any reccomendations for anything are appreciated.

thanks!

 

[BS5711]

hey, so I thought i wanted a dap but after reading a lot I heard a lot of people saying that its way too overly priced for basically only good dac amp chips and battery life. im still not sure what i want but i know i want a portable source.

the reason im attracted to daps is because its a nice all in one device that i have to admit, looks very good.

currently thinking maybe i can buy a cheap phone like the lg v series but I dont know which model to get, v30 and 40 seem the most popular, while v60 seems to have the best battery life

looking here for recommendations about anything else. I heard about a few phones from sony (xperia) but theyre quite expensive, asus too (rog or zen) they have great battery life and support "hi res" but they dont really have an sd slot

Im not going to stream on this phone, my goal is to own all my music, i can have spotify on my main phone. so its going to be a fully offline phone

Im looking for a phone that has these things:
- very good battery life like a dap, minimum 5 hours of continuous flacc 16/44.1 playback
- micro sd card slot at least one, multiple would be amazing
- not a huge device, i like compact things
- a good dac or amp chip is nice but i am open to buying a dongle dac
- can play audio to an external dac via usb c

also Im open to diy, so if you know any way to buy stuff like the akm dac chips seperately and other parts and build a small device (kind of like pi, but portable and can run actuall android), maybe if its cheaper

any reccomendations for anything are appreciated.

thanks!

I know you asked about phones but you also mentioned you initially thought about a DAP.

I use my phone for calls and messages for work and from friends/family and want my music source to be completely separate as you indicated would be similar to your scenario.

As such I bought a FiiO M11 Plus which I have used at my desktop while working at least 4 days a week for two years. I use it as a standalone DAP with IEM and as a digital source into one of several DAC/Amps via USB or coaxial and more recently via line out into a separate amplifier. It is perfect for my use.

The coaxial digital and line out are connectivity options no phone will offer.

Just recently I bought a little Shanling M3 Ultra DAP because it is much smaller and lighter and therefore better for portable use and for several upcoming long haul flights, the M11 Plus is a little bulky and heavy. The M3 Ultra supports hi res audio natively so bypasses the Android 48khz resampling even on Apple Music and Tidal.

The M3 Ultra does not have coaxial digital out but it of course has USB-C and can also provide a line out to an amplifier. It has an SD card slot and I have a 256GB card in it supplementing the onboard memory to download selected playlists from Apple Music and Tidal so it can be used online or offline.

I have been using it for the last several weeks on its own and as a digital source into DAC/Amps and via line out to an amplifier and am really enjoying it. It sounds good on its own and as a source into other devices.

With IEM, onboard music and a minimum of screen usage the battery will drop from full to 50% in about 9 hours of constant play time so the battery life is excellent.

The only downside is the screen is somewhat small but then so is the DAP. That said, unless your eyesight is poor or you have huge fingers it is absolutely fine. You can’t have a small light device and a big screen.

The only other minor consideration is it runs Android 10 which is a bit outdated compared to a modern phone but is quite a recent version of Android in terms of DAPs. That doesn’t bother me because as a dedicated music source the slower operating system is no impediment at all.

For the balance of cost, functionality and performance I think the M3 Ultra is hard to beat and for portability I much prefer a single small DAP versus a phone and a dongle or DAC/Amp.

 

[audiobeans]

I know you asked about phones but you also mentioned you initially thought about a DAP.

I use my phone for calls and messages for work and from friends/family and want my music source to be completely separate as you indicated would be similar to your scenario.

As such I bought a FiiO M11 Plus which I have used at my desktop while working at least 4 days a week for two years. I use it as a standalone DAP with IEM and as a digital source into one of several DAC/Amps via USB or coaxial and more recently via line out into a separate amplifier. It is perfect for my use.

The coaxial digital and line out are connectivity options no phone will offer.

Just recently I bought a little Shanling M3 Ultra DAP because it is much smaller and lighter and therefore better for portable use and for several upcoming long haul flights, the M11 Plus is a little bulky and heavy. The M3 Ultra supports hi res audio natively so bypasses the Android 48khz resampling even on Apple Music and Tidal.

The M3 Ultra does not have coaxial digital out but it of course has USB-C and can also provide a line out to an amplifier. It has an SD card slot and I have a 256GB card in it supplementing the onboard memory to download selected playlists from Apple Music and Tidal so it can be used online or offline.

I have been using it for the last several weeks on its own and as a digital source into DAC/Amps and via line out to an amplifier and am really enjoying it. It sounds good on its own and as a source into other devices.

With IEM, onboard music and a minimum of screen usage the battery will drop from full to 50% in about 9 hours of constant play time so the battery life is excellent.

The only downside is the screen is somewhat small but then so is the DAP. That said, unless your eyesight is poor or you have huge fingers it is absolutely fine. You can’t have a small light device and a big screen.

The only other minor consideration is it runs Android 10 which is a bit outdated compared to a modern phone but is quite a recent version of Android in terms of DAPs. That doesn’t bother me because as a dedicated music source the slower operating system is no impediment at all.

For the balance of cost, functionality and performance I think the M3 Ultra is hard to beat and for portability I much prefer a single small DAP versus a phone and a dongle or DAC/Amp.

thats exactly what i was thinking, its really nice to have a device dedicated for one use and makes it really easy, and no phones come at sizes this small. i was thinking of the m6 pro actually since, based on what i read, i would prefer an akm dac instead of ess. thats one of the reasons im finding it hard to find a dap i like, do you have any experience with the differences? the one thing that really attracts me to the m3 ultra is the 19 hour balanced battery life which is insane, but i dont think i would need that much in reality. while a phone is much cheaper its a lot less convenient, so its a hard choice.

on a different note i bought the astell and kern acro l1000 when i bought my headphones and im thinking of selling it as ive realised i much more prefer a portable solution because i like walking around the house/ taking my library with me. do you think i should sell and buy a dap or?

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

hey, so I thought i wanted a dap but after reading a lot I heard a lot of people saying that its way too overly priced for basically only good dac amp chips and battery life. im still not sure what i want but i know i want a portable source.

the reason im attracted to daps is because its a nice all in one device that i have to admit, looks very good.

currently thinking maybe i can buy a cheap phone like the lg v series but I dont know which model to get, v30 and 40 seem the most popular, while v60 seems to have the best battery life

looking here for recommendations about anything else. I heard about a few phones from sony (xperia) but theyre quite expensive, asus too (rog or zen) they have great battery life and support "hi res" but they dont really have an sd slot

Im not going to stream on this phone, my goal is to own all my music, i can have spotify on my main phone. so its going to be a fully offline phone

Im looking for a phone that has these things:
- very good battery life like a dap, minimum 5 hours of continuous flacc 16/44.1 playback
- micro sd card slot at least one, multiple would be amazing
- not a huge device, i like compact things
- a good dac or amp chip is nice but i am open to buying a dongle dac
- can play audio to an external dac via usb c

also Im open to diy, so if you know any way to buy stuff like the akm dac chips seperately and other parts and build a small device (kind of like pi, but portable and can run actuall android), maybe if its cheaper

any reccomendations for anything are appreciated.

thanks!

An LG G7 would check your boxes if you want to go the phone route. A small budget DAP, such as recommended by BS5711 above is also a good bet. I have a Fiio M6 myself, which I got in an open box deal for about $100. It's a 1/3 the size of a typical phone, can run drive most of my headphones, and the battery lasts most of a workday when I use it like that.

 

[audiobeans]

An LG G7 would check your boxes if you want to go the phone route. A small budget DAP, such as recommended by BS5711 above is also a good bet. I have a Fiio M6 myself, which I got in an open box deal for about $100. It's a 1/3 the size of a typical phone, can run drive most of my headphones, and the battery lasts most of a workday when I use it like that.

100 dollars is amazing. i tried it in comparison to the m6 pro and i did prefer the pro, but i dont know if its worth the price jump.

lg g7 looks pretty good thanks!

 

[BS5711]

thats exactly what i was thinking, its really nice to have a device dedicated for one use and makes it really easy, and no phones come at sizes this small. i was thinking of the m6 pro actually since, based on what i read, i would prefer an akm dac instead of ess. thats one of the reasons im finding it hard to find a dap i like, do you have any experience with the differences? the one thing that really attracts me to the m3 ultra is the 19 hour balanced battery life which is insane, but i dont think i would need that much in reality. while a phone is much cheaper its a lot less convenient, so its a hard choice.

on a different note i bought the astell and kern acro l1000 when i bought my headphones and im thinking of selling it as ive realised i much more prefer a portable solution because i like walking around the house/ taking my library with me. do you think i should sell and buy a dap or?

My M11 Plus has an AKM DAC and as you indicated the M3 Ultra has an ESS. Frankly I think a bit much is made of the whole DAC chip thing.

With certain combinations of equipment I think I hear a slightly warmer sound from the M11 than the M3 Ultra but it is subtle and while there might be a subtle difference it isn’t like one is deficient and the other is superior. In fact you might prefer the ESS based DAP with certain IEM or headphones and an AKM based one with others. Then there is the question about the actual DAC chip used versus how that chip is implemented in the overall design. Also, how much difference does the amplification stage make and does a FiiO THX amp sound different to a Shanling design ?

Only you can decide to sell and put the money into something portable. I actually use portable gear at my desk. I don’t have a lot of space and I like to use different gear day to day and with different IEM or headphones rather than use the same big desktop set up every day so I rotate several portable DAC/Amps and an Astell and Kern PA10 amplifier. I got rid of several desktop amps for that reason and have no regrets at all.

Based on your description of your use case I think the little M3 Ultra would do an excellent job.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

My M11 Plus has an AKM DAC and as you indicated the M3 Ultra has an ESS. Frankly I think a bit much is made of the whole DAC chip thing.

With certain combinations of equipment I think I hear a slightly warmer sound from the M11 than the M3 Ultra but it is subtle and while there might be a subtle difference it isn’t like one is deficient and the other is superior. In fact you might prefer the ESS based DAP with certain IEM or headphones and an AKM based one with others. Then there is the question about the actual DAC chip used versus how that chip is implemented in the overall design. Also, how much difference does the amplification stage make and does a FiiO THX amp sound different to a Shanling design ?

Only you can decide to sell and put the money into something portable. I actually use portable gear at my desk. I don’t have a lot of space and I like to use different gear day to day and with different IEM or headphones rather than use the same big desktop set up every day so I rotate several portable DAC/Amps and an Astell and Kern PA10 amplifier. I got rid of several desktop amps for that reason and have no regrets at all.

Based on your description of your use case I think the little M3 Ultra would do an excellent job.

Good luck with your decision.

The whole AKM ESS chip thing is one of those rockfights that I try to avoid (see also: cables, burn -in) But yeah . . . any commercial DAC chip is audibly transparent. Whatever difference people think they hear isn't because of that.

 

[audiobeans]

The whole AKM ESS chip thing is one of those rockfights that I try to avoid (see also: cables, burn -in) But yeah . . . any commercial DAC chip is audibly transparent. Whatever difference people think they hear isn't because of that.

well i disagree, i tried the m6 pro and the m3x and i preffered the pro, like a lot of people said, i find the ess chips to be a bit too harsh and the akm chips more laid back while having amazing detail

 

[audiobeans]

My M11 Plus has an AKM DAC and as you indicated the M3 Ultra has an ESS. Frankly I think a bit much is made of the whole DAC chip thing.

With certain combinations of equipment I think I hear a slightly warmer sound from the M11 than the M3 Ultra but it is subtle and while there might be a subtle difference it isn’t like one is deficient and the other is superior. In fact you might prefer the ESS based DAP with certain IEM or headphones and an AKM based one with others. Then there is the question about the actual DAC chip used versus how that chip is implemented in the overall design. Also, how much difference does the amplification stage make and does a FiiO THX amp sound different to a Shanling design ?

Only you can decide to sell and put the money into something portable. I actually use portable gear at my desk. I don’t have a lot of space and I like to use different gear day to day and with different IEM or headphones rather than use the same big desktop set up every day so I rotate several portable DAC/Amps and an Astell and Kern PA10 amplifier. I got rid of several desktop amps for that reason and have no regrets at all.

Based on your description of your use case I think the little M3 Ultra would do an excellent job.

Good luck with your decision.

thank you, i might have some bias on the whole dac chip thing, i dont know why. ill find some time to go to the e-earphone store close to me, they have an insane inventory. ill just compare dacs with different chips. i think mainly shanling and fiio, i didnt really like the ibasso line personally.

 

[BS5711]

well i disagree, i tried the m6 pro and the m3x and i preffered the pro, like a lot of people said, i find the ess chips to be a bit too harsh and the akm chips more laid back while having amazing detail

Sure, no problem.

Do consider that, if I understand correctly, you went and listened having read about the DAPs and therefore had a preconceived idea of how they would compare.

If that is the case you may have heard what you expected to hear, at least to some extent.

Regardless, buy what you enjoy for whatever reason.

EDITED TO ADD: Shanling say the M3 Ultra is a much warmer tuning than the M3X, you might hear the Ultra more favourably than the X.

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

well i disagree, i tried the m6 pro and the m3x and i preffered the pro, like a lot of people said, i find the ess chips to be a bit too harsh and the akm chips more laid back while having amazing detail

But the particular DAC chip wasn't the only variable in that scenario.