Opinions wanted: HD25 vs HD280 PRO

[l3stat]

Hi guys, my first post if I'm not wrong. Did go through the old threads that talk about the pros and cons of the 2 headphones, but never saw an A/B test. Which is why I thought I'd get some opinions here.

I already have a HD497 for home use, which incidentally is my benchmark for headphones (not the greatest one, but..). Am in the market for a pair of noise isolating headphones, for DAP use on the train/buses etc. Tried the IEMs, but not my cup of tea. Am currently using the PX100, which sounds great used in quiet, but doesn't meet my needs due to its open nature. Too much noise gets in and I end up playing music too loud trying to drown it out. Am only considering Senns for now as I can get good prices for one or 2 sets. (like US$75 for the HD280, US$150 for the HD25).

Price isn't really the concern (given the discounts), although I'd prefer to spend less if I can. I listen to a mix from rock to opera to classical to vocal stuff. Noise isolation is my greater concern, although I'm willing to yield a little on that if sound quality is the price to pay (no point getting clear ****** sound quality, if you get what I mean).

Senn says the HD280 gets 30db+ of noise isolation while saint.panda's post http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72883 says the HD25 gets about 16db. HD280 seems to win on isolation specs, but rave reviews are for the HD25. What do you guys think? Is the HD25 really a better headphone and is the price premium worth it? I haven't tried both yet, intending to do that soon, so if y'all also could tell me what to look out for as well, that'll be great!

Thanks in advance!

 

[pbalcer]

Hi,

I've got both HD25-1 and HD280Pro. HD280 isolates better than HD25 but not as much better as the numbers you quoted (30 dB and 16 dB) would suggest. I don't know how these number were measured but judging "by ear" the difference is not that huge.

HD280 sounds better (to me) than HD25. The latter delivers "compressed" (for the lack of better word to describe it) sound with exaggerated bass that tends to mask mids. I also have the impression that highs are a bit more harsh than highs on HD280. HD280 has weaker bass but it extends much more towards low frequencies. With a few dB of equalization, the bass on HD280 sounds better and more natural than bass on HD25. But don't get me wrong - the sound of HD25 is still much better than the sound of, say, PX100.

The real strength of HD25 is its smaller size, rugged construction and high sensitivity (so they can be easily driven from all types of portable players). Those things make it very good headphone for portable use. The HD25 are not as comfortable as HD280 (especially if you're wearing glasses). But it is smaller so it can be easily tucked in a bag (or worn around the neck - if you have a long neck). Besides, HD25-1 looks cheap so there is smaller chance of them getting stolen.

I use HD25 "on the go" and HD280 at home when the noisy AC is on (etc.).

If you're looking for isolating headphones for home use, you might also consider AKG K271. This headphone delivers better sound than HD25 and HD280 and still isolates quite well. I'm using K271 at work to keep "monkey chatter" out of my music.

Cheers!

 

[episiarch]

I'm pretty much in agreement with pbalcer. The HD280 is more isolating by a noticeable amount, but not by a *huge* amount. For on-the-go use, the HD280 is a bit less practical due to its size, bulky coiled cord, and distinctly larger on-the-head look.

Soundwise the HD280 is objectively better, but subjectively I find the HD25 more engaging and fun. With solo piano and classical the HD25 is at a serious disadvantage because unbalanced bass-heavy presentation really detracts from the music. I suspect the same would be true of opera, but I haven't done that A-B test.

In terms of comfort, I greatly prefer the HD25. The HD280 squeezes my head much too tightly, and I don't have an oversized head. I see that pbalcer finds the 280 more comfortable than the 25, so this is one of those "different strokes" things.

Other options to consider:

HD25-SP. Small size like the HD25, similar isolation and comfort, a neutral presentation like the HD280, and a lower price point than the HD25. I actually like its sound better than the HD280, but I can't state an objective reason why. This headphone gets no respect on Head-Fi, but I'm convinced it would be well-liked if it weren't always compared with the popular HD25. (Drawback: on trains and buses you may need the HD25's bass emphasis to really hear the music's bass over the rumble of your conveyance, even given the headphone's isolation.)

Shure E4/E4C. You said you tried IEMs and they weren't your cup of tea, but you didn't say why. I would urge you to give them another chance, especially if you haven't heard the E4 yet. It's my favorite unamped sound, it's very comfortable (something in its extensive fit kit is bound to work for you), noise isolation is superb, and it's very portable and very unobtrusive. It's what I'd wear on buses and trains.

 

[l3stat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbalcer Hi, I've got both HD25-1 and HD280Pro. HD280 isolates better than HD25 but not as much better as the numbers you quoted (30 dB and 16 dB) would suggest. I don't know how these number were measured but judging "by ear" the difference is not that huge. HD280 sounds better (to me) than HD25. The latter delivers "compressed" (for the lack of better word to describe it) sound with exaggerated bass that tends to mask mids. I also have the impression that highs are a bit more harsh than highs on HD280. HD280 has weaker bass but it extends much more towards low frequencies. With a few dB of equalization, the bass on HD280 sounds better and more natural than bass on HD25. But don't get me wrong - the sound of HD25 is still much better than the sound of, say, PX100. The real strength of HD25 is its smaller size, rugged construction and high sensitivity (so they can be easily driven from all types of portable players). Those things make it very good headphone for portable use. The HD25 are not as comfortable as HD280 (especially if you're wearing glasses). But it is smaller so it can be easily tucked in a bag (or worn around the neck - if you have a long neck). Besides, HD25-1 looks cheap so there is smaller chance of them getting stolen. I use HD25 "on the go" and HD280 at home when the noisy AC is on (etc.). If you're looking for isolating headphones for home use, you might also consider AKG K271. This headphone delivers better sound than HD25 and HD280 and still isolates quite well. I'm using K271 at work to keep "monkey chatter" out of my music. Cheers!

Thanks man! Nothing like an A/B test!

Would I be right to say that the HD280 has a larger "soundstage" than the HD25? In terms of sensitivity, I think the HD280 has an impedance of 64ohms (vs 25's 70ohms), which should make both on par.

One plus point of the 25 I considered was that its cable comes "clamped" to the cup, while the 280's is "plugged in". I know your 280s are used indoors, but have you had any durability issues with the 280s? I saw some comments on some sets having suspect build quality, but wasn't able to find any specific information.

And yes I do have a long neck (makes up quite a bit of my 5' 11")!

Am heading out to the store to see both in the flesh! Thanks man!

 

[l3stat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by episiarch I'm pretty much in agreement with pbalcer. The HD280 is more isolating by a noticeable amount, but not by a *huge* amount. For on-the-go use, the HD280 is a bit less practical due to its size, bulky coiled cord, and distinctly larger on-the-head look. Soundwise the HD280 is objectively better, but subjectively I find the HD25 more engaging and fun. With solo piano and classical the HD25 is at a serious disadvantage because unbalanced bass-heavy presentation really detracts from the music. I suspect the same would be true of opera, but I haven't done that A-B test. In terms of comfort, I greatly prefer the HD25. The HD280 squeezes my head much too tightly, and I don't have an oversized head. I see that pbalcer finds the 280 more comfortable than the 25, so this is one of those "different strokes" things. Other options to consider: HD25-SP. Small size like the HD25, similar isolation and comfort, a neutral presentation like the HD280, and a lower price point than the HD25. I actually like its sound better than the HD280, but I can't state an objective reason why. This headphone gets no respect on Head-Fi, but I'm convinced it would be well-liked if it weren't always compared with the popular HD25. (Drawback: on trains and buses you may need the HD25's bass emphasis to really hear the music's bass over the rumble of your conveyance, even given the headphone's isolation.) Shure E4/E4C. You said you tried IEMs and they weren't your cup of tea, but you didn't say why. I would urge you to give them another chance, especially if you haven't heard the E4 yet. It's my favorite unamped sound, it's very comfortable (something in its extensive fit kit is bound to work for you), noise isolation is superb, and it's very portable and very unobtrusive. It's what I'd wear on buses and trains.

Thanks for the comments! Actually, I'm more partial towards the 280 as its cable sits at about 1m unstretched despite its bulk (if Senn's descriptions are any good). I usually hold my DAP in my hand, and since I'm not a primate, there's quite a lot of slack on the PX100's 1.4m cable. I've had unpleasant experiences of getting the cable caught on door knobs, table corners, you name it. And the 25's cable is 1.5m long.

Sure, I can probably try to get it recabled, but sad to say here in the Far East, we don't have reputable guys who can do that. Don't wanna risk voiding the warranty and ending up with a dud pair.

Just curious, how small is the 280 folded, compared to the 25? Smaller or similar? Size I'm not that particular again, as I only use it for daily commutes. The headphones get stashed into my drawer at my workplace.

I do sound partial towards the 280, but don't get me wrong, am still open to both. The 25 does have that "snob" factor appeal due to its price.

Plus I think your point about bass emphasis for noisy environments is quite valid.

Ah well I must admit I've only tried a pair of Sony EX-51s (burnt in), and Panasonic HJE-50s (new). The highs were tinny, and mids muffled, and comfort wasn't great. The idea of earwax and stuff accumulating on the phones didn't appeal to me either. I found the cable rather microphonic, probably due to the seal. That put me off so much I didn't try it out of the house. I'm not sure, but I think for the price of Shure's, I wouldn't be in this dilemma over which Senn to pick (just buy both!)

I could be wrong on the last point though.

 

[saint.panda]

Agreed with everything pbalcer and episiarch have already said, especially this statement regarding the sound quality:
Quote:

Originally Posted by episiarch Soundwise the HD280 is objectively better, but subjectively I find the HD25 more engaging and fun. With solo piano and classical the HD25 is at a serious disadvantage because unbalanced bass-heavy presentation really detracts from the music. I suspect the same would be true of opera, but I haven't done that A-B test.

The HD 280 has a noticeably bigger soundstage than the HD 25 although that isn't necessarily a hard feat since the HD 25'1 soundstage is almost non-existant.

The impedance actually doesn't tell you too much about the headphone's efficiency since you'd actually have to look at the sensitivity ratings. Either way, both are pretty easy to drive from portable players, the HD 25 even more so.

I'd say the Hd 280 folded is about the same size as the HD 25 unfolded, which should tell you a lot about their size differences.

If given the choice for a portable headphone, I wouldn't even consider the HD 280 Pro due to its huge size but nothing beats a personal inspection and audition of course. Just don't forget to look at yourself in the mirror when wearing the HD 280.

 

[luuk]

did you already received the "sorry about your wallet" thing?
if not, here it is

 

[pbalcer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by l3stat Thanks man! Nothing like an A/B test! Would I be right to say that the HD280 has a larger "soundstage" than the HD25? In terms of sensitivity, I think the HD280 has an impedance of 64ohms (vs 25's 70ohms), which should make both on par. One plus point of the 25 I considered was that its cable comes "clamped" to the cup, while the 280's is "plugged in". I know your 280s are used indoors, but have you had any durability issues with the 280s? I saw some comments on some sets having suspect build quality, but wasn't able to find any specific information. And yes I do have a long neck (makes up quite a bit of my 5' 11")! Am heading out to the store to see both in the flesh! Thanks man!

Hi again!

I think saint.panda has already answered some of your questions.

It is true that HD280's cable is plugged-in but the attached manual shows how to open the cup and unscrew and replace the cable - if needed.

The build quality of the HD280Pro is pretty good. BUT there is a design flaw there: the tension of the headband is quite strong and after some time of using the headphones, the headband developes small cracks - there were pictures posted on this forum. Mine has the crack on one side of the headband. It is very small (so far) and doesn't affect anything - it is not like the headphones were falling apart (at this point). Maybe in the future, if the crack becomes bigger, I will have to treat it with a glue... but for now it's not a problem.

Cheers!

 

[Firestarter]

i have no experience with the hd280 pro, but i can attest to the fact that the exaggerated bass of the hd25 works wonders in public transit. alas, it makes me want to buy an amp for my hd595's due to their ... laid back presentation of the bass.

*sells a kidney*

 

[l3stat]

Thanks a lot for the comments guys, I think I'll reply to y'all in one post.

Went to see the phones in the flesh yesterday, and gosh the 280 is HUGE! I didn't have a mirror to see myself in, but bystanders gave me good enough confirmation that it stands out. I'll talk about hardware bits first.

The 280 like I said is huge, and yes saint.panda is right, folded up it's like the 25. I don't think its size can get any smaller. Construction is fairly solid, but I didn't like the silver colour that they had of course (I don't mind my silver HD497 at home, but wear it outdoors? No...). I must say the clamping force is not as strong as I've expected (I don't have a tiny head), but one thing I didn't like is that the cups don't "enclose" my ears. There's a good seal, but there's this loose feeling when the cushions don't touch your ears. It doesn't shift about when I shake my head, but it's just that feeling. The other peeve would be the cable. episiarch, I finally get what you meant about the thick bulky cable. Unstretched, it's about as long as the 25's, and a whole lot heavier and thicker. Likewise, the plug itself (without the 1/4" adapter) feels like an aircraft's refuelling probe! Huge! Plus the whole set feels considerably heavier than the 25. I haven't tried it, but I foresee the heavy cable will be a cause of irritation when I walk. I think it's good if you spend extended periods sitting down when travelling, but if you're moving around, no go.

I believe the 25 needs no introduction. Versus the 280, it's like a sleek cheetah compared to an elephant. The fit was good, gave me a secure feel although it's supra-aural. I'm on overall happier with the 25. But one thing I can't understand is why Senn chose to use a plastic headband. Although it felt fairly robust, it flexed when I tried to twist it. Come on, even my PX100 comes with a metal headband. I haven't heard any durability issues from you guys, guess I'll leave it at that.

Isolation, yes I'd say that 280 is superior, but only slightly. I walked around the store, lingered near the entrance (and made the salesperson nervous) to get more noise from outside. Compared to the PX100, I could hear much more on both sets at the same volume. On SRV's Little Wing, the extended hammer-on and pull-on parts were so clear! Between the 2 closed cans, the difference was not great. Given its bulk, I don't think the increased isolation of the 280 is worth it.

Moving on to sound, one caveat. I spent too much time standing in front of cranked guitar tube amps and drumsets, 2 years with the artillery, 3 years riding loud motorcycles.

Plus I don't really have the right vocabulary to describe headphones, so please bear with me. The 280 sounds much more open (soundstage?) than the 25, which is great in quiet. But given the noisy environment, I think I ended up hearing less on the 280 due to its soundstage (kinda contradicting to its better isolation). On certain rock tracks, the 280 didn't have as much bass as the 25, as to be expected. Both sets were brand new out of the box, I tried looking out for sibilance that most complain about the 25. Maybe my ears are shot, but I didn't detect any. Used SRV's Little Wing again to attest to that. I'm fairly used to the PX100 now, and I felt right at home with the 25, in terms of its "openness" or the lack thereof. I think that would work in noise, as you can hear better (or I'm just deaf), I'll leave openness for home use.

Regarding the way the cables are attached, I saw the 280's instruction manual, but am not convinced it's durable. The 25's cable is clamped, but it has some freeplay to give if the cable is tugged hard. On the 280, I think the plastic holder within the cup will give way when tugged hard, or the cable would go.

I guess the choice is clear now! Thanks a lot for all the help and comments guys! Total noob here!

By the way, you guys should start a HF VISA or Mastercard program.

 

[saint.panda]

Nice headphons you got.

I actually prefer the plastic headband because it's less prone to being bent or dented permanently.

As for the sibilance, sibilance has to be on the recording first but if it's there, the HD 25 tends to emphasise it. I don't think it's a major problem but it can be annoying sometimes.

All you need now is a pair of velour pads for about $15, which really increase the long-term comfort.

In any case, enjoy your new headphones!

 

[hentai]

why not the akg271s? too big?

 

[Chri5peed]

I'm after some good closed phones too. The K271s do look good, but is it true they make your ears sweat?

The 280s don't enclose you ears? They're circum-aural, thats why I dismissed the supra-aural 25s.

 

[Wodzas]

The HD25 are not as comfortable as HD280 (especially if you're wearing glasses (...)

So in your opinion, are HD 280 PRo comfortable for person, who wears glasses? (I unfortunatelly must to wear glasses, and the comfortability is really important for me

 

[hentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodzas The HD25 are not as comfortable as HD280 (especially if you're wearing glasses (...) So in your opinion, are HD 280 PRo comfortable for person, who wears glasses? (I unfortunatelly must to wear glasses, and the comfortability is really important for me

i wear glasses and feel that hd280 pro doesn't make me uncomfortable neither its comfortable.

Imho akg 271 has better sound compared to hd280 pro, give the akgs a try