[XenatR]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy a new pair of headphones to replace my failing (one side is intermittently not working) Audio Technica A900. I am quite happy with them, although I would prefer a larger sound stage for pinpointing enemy location in fps games such as Counter Strike (GO) and BF3.

Today I received the AKG K702 and I can't say I like them. They has a somewhat similar sound profile to my HD555 (which I hated) in that they sound very 'veiled' and 'dark'? My A900 on the other hand, are crystal clear, the bass is tight and punchy and the tones are pleasing to my ears. Why the difference?

I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that I'm not using a DAC/AMP, rather, running them off the integrated Realtek 898 sound card? I have on order, the Creative Sound BlasterX G6 sound card, arriving tomorrow, so will be able to see if it improves.

My question is, do you guys know of any similar sounding headphones to the A900 which has a wider sound stage and better imaging? I heard the K702 were the best, but they're quite off-putting in their presentation. What about the DT 880?

Many thanks for your time

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I must admit that I had to read your post a couple of times before it made sense...or well it still doesn’t actually make sense to me, in that you are describing perhaps one of the brightest and clear sounding headphones (K702) as being veiled and dark.
Personally I think you are used to the closedback presentation you get from the Audio Technica, which is a far darker headphone. You can see this in a simple frequency response btw...but yeah maybe just maybe I think you have confused the leaner bass of the AKG with an absence of detail ie making the headphone sound veiled.
If you are looking for something similar aka big bass in an openback with a large soundstage, I’d go for the AKG K7XX.

 

[pbui44]

The AKG K702 (rated at 62 ohms) is a much tougher model to drive and tube amps are much preferred, so try using this tube amp with its balanced (XLR) output power optimized to ~650ohms at 64 ohms:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...b3d8945a78d0c&btn_ref=srctok-8cab3d8945a78d0c

However, many have found the Darkvoice 336SE as a perfect pairing with the K702:

https://www.amazon.com/DarkVoice-336SE-Headphone-Tube-Amplifier/dp/B00CF9JON8

 

[XenatR]

The AKG K702 (rated at 62 ohms) is a much tougher model to drive and tube amps are much preferred, so try using this tube amp with its balanced (XLR) output power optimized to ~650ohms at 64 ohms:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...b3d8945a78d0c&btn_ref=srctok-8cab3d8945a78d0c

However, many have found the Darkvoice 336SE as a perfect pairing with the K702:

https://www.amazon.com/DarkVoice-336SE-Headphone-Tube-Amplifier/dp/B00CF9JON8

I'm not very proficient regarding the description of sound, however, when I use the game Counter Strike as an example, the footsteps sound muffled and like plastic whereas on the A900 they sound full, warm and with more detail. Does this make sense? What is this phenomenon and how can I find a headphone with the sound signature I require? Thanks for the K7XX suggestion. Are there any others?

The AKG K702 (rated at 62 ohms) is a much tougher model to drive and tube amps are much preferred, so try using this tube amp with its balanced (XLR) output power optimized to ~650ohms at 64 ohms:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...b3d8945a78d0c&btn_ref=srctok-8cab3d8945a78d0c

However, many have found the Darkvoice 336SE as a perfect pairing with the K702:

https://www.amazon.com/DarkVoice-336SE-Headphone-Tube-Amplifier/dp/B00CF9JON8

Thank you for the suggestions. Why are tube amps better? I have already ordered the Creative Sound BlasterX G6 DAC/AMP. How would this compare to the Darkvoice 336SE? Why do people enjoy the latter paired with the K702? How does it change their sound?

Thank you!

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

^^But the P20’s output impedance is around 47 ohm
If you plug your AKG into the P20 you get distortions - also the kind that messes with the bass in less than sympathetic ways imho. In short: it becomes lose.
The golden rule of thumb has always been, that the output impedance of the amp should be less than 1/8 of the headphones ohm value.

Other headphone recs:
X2
K712
Both heralded as brilliant cans for gaming btw...the K7XX equally so

Edith: Also if you don’t like the sound of X headphone no amplifier will remedy that.
We often see this in various Sennheiser threads. If a member doesn’t like the sound of the headphone or similarly has a somewhat negative view of it...well then obviously it’s to do with the amplification!
Bullocks. We merely have different tastebuds..that’s about it. One man’s gold is another man’s trash.

 

[XenatR]

^But the P20’s output impedance is around 47 ohm
If you plug your AKG into the P20 you get distortions - also the kind that messes with the bass in less than sympathetic ways imho. In short: it becomes lose.
The golden rule of thumb has always been, that the output impedance of the amp should be less than 1/8 of the headphones ohm value.

Other headphone recs:
X2
K712
Both heralded as brilliant cans for gaming btw...the K7XX equally so

The first quote i replied to was supposed to be yours!
Is the 'full' 'warm' clean sound i like of the A900 because they have a stronger bass and are closed? I always thought they seemed perfectly suited to metal music and create a warm tone to it. Difficult to articulate

Could I ask you your thoughts on the Sound BlasterX G6 sound card? I also heard good things of the X2 and K712. What about the DT 880? Will any of these options get me close to what I'm after? Many thanks

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

The first quote i replied to was supposed to be yours!
Is the 'full' 'warm' clean sound i like of the A900 because they have a stronger bass and are closed? I always thought they seemed perfectly suited to metal music and create a warm tone to it. Difficult to articulate

Could I ask you your thoughts on the Sound BlasterX G6 sound card? I also heard good things of the X2 and K712. What about the DT 880? Will any of these options get me close to what I'm after? Many thanks

Closedback headphones generally have better bass response than open ones...generally. Closedbacks can also feel more detailed simply because they block out noise...and with less noise you get more of the recording. Openbacks though, at least to me, sound way more natural...but you do need a somewhat quiet room to sit in in order to get most out of the experience
The Beyerdynamic is a no-no if you don’t like the sound of the K702. It’s also on the bright/thin side sound signature-wise.
I took a quick look at the frequency response of your Audio Technica and it almost looks like the DT770: boosted bass and some extra energy in the treble.
Some other recs that share a similar sound profile are:
Ultrasone Pro 1480i
Ultrasone Pro 2900
Beyerdynamic DT990/Amiron Home/T1
Hifiman HE400/HE400i
AKG K240

Out of these which one is the best? I honestly couldn’t say. It depends entirely on your own ears and tastes.

Edith: sorry forgot about your Soundblaster query. I think it looks just fine
..and I will be extremely surprised if you can hear a difference between it and just about any other solid state set-up, if the volume levels are perfectly matched. Trust me, you’re good to go with what you already own...just stick with it and concentrate on getting the right headphone for your needs. The amp will power all the above mentioned headphones just fine

 

[pbui44]

@XenatR I went back to your first post and realized that you are gaming competitively, which led you to the K702. The Darkvoice 336SE is mainly for pure music enjoyment, though it is probably phenomenal for gaming, too. However, since you are competitively gaming an already ordered a Sound Blaster G6, you can just get a discontinued Magni 3, which Schiit has on closeout for $59 (original non-transferable 2-year-warranty, but no returns):

https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks

Also, you can ask @Mad Lust Envy about amps and pairings for competitive gaming here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...eze-lcd-1-mobius-fixed-missing-images.534479/

 

[XenatR]

Closedback headphones generally have better bass response than open ones...generally. Closedbacks can also feel more detailed simply because they block out noise...and with less noise you get more of the recording. Openbacks though, at least to me, sound way more natural...but you do need a somewhat quiet room to sit in in order to get most out of the experience
The Beyerdynamic is a no-no if you don’t like the sound of the K702. It’s also on the bright/thin side sound signature-wise.
I took a quick look at the frequency response of your Audio Technica and it almost looks like the DT770: boosted bass and some extra energy in the treble.
Some other recs that share a similar sound profile are:
Ultrasone Pro 1480i
Ultrasone Pro 2900
Beyerdynamic DT990/Amiron Home/T1
Hifiman HE400/HE400i
AKG K240

Out of these which one is the best? I honestly couldn’t say. It depends entirely on your own ears and tastes.

Edith: sorry forgot about your Soundblaster query. I think it looks just fine
..and I will be extremely surprised if you can hear a difference between it and just about any other solid state set-up, if the volume levels are perfectly matched. Trust me, you’re good to go with what you already own...just stick with it and concentrate on getting the right headphone for your needs. The amp will power all the above mentioned headphones just fine

Wow, Thank you for the information!
i must say i don't enjoy the k702, they are quite 'tinny'. the A900 seem warmer, richer and i think clearer? not sure why.

i ordered the k712 and dt 990 so hopefully ill find what im looking for there lol

The Hifiman are indeed very interesting! i can see people also like to mod the 'mesh' on those to open up the trebel more. the 'clarity' of those planars is indeed spoken highly of.
The AKG K240 i looked at but people said their soundstage isn't great for gaming.

Where did you find the sound signature of my A900?

 

[llysender]

I would recomend the r70x as a replacement to the A900. Granted I only have the A900x to compare it to but I think you will quite enjoy the r70x sound.

Ah I see you already decided on the K712 or dt990. Honestly if you still can cancel the dt990. Its way too different from the A900 and you need to like beyer teble.
That being said if you can return for free go ahead and try the dt990.

 

[XenatR]

I would recomend the r70x as a replacement to the A900. Granted I only have the A900x to compare it to but I think you will quite enjoy the r70x sound.

Ah I see you already decided on the K712 or dt990. Honestly if you still can cancel the dt990. Its way too different from the A900 and you need to like beyer teble.
That being said if you can return for free go ahead and try the dt990.

Hey thank you. I can return the DT990 so will continue with the delivery.
Could you describe to me how do the R70X compare with the A900X?

 

[llysender]

Hey thank you. I can return the DT990 so will continue with the delivery.
Could you describe to me how do the R70X compare with the A900X?

R70X has slightly lesser but much deeper bass then the A900X. Particularly so if you are looking for a good subbass rumble. A900X bass is puncher but lacks the details that the R70X provides making drum and synths feel more "natural". R70X can have sharp punchy bass but only when the song calls for it while A900X thends to make more things punchy.

Mids wise A900X has a larger female vocal hump so directly A/Bing with the R70X female vocals sounds more forward. That being saild R70X is still audio technica and has the female vocals boost be it not as much. Makes the R70X have equally engaging male and female vocals.

Treble both A900X and R70X are recessed giving focus to the mids. That being said A900X is peakier while the R70X is smoother. Imo I prefer R70X trebble to the A900X. That being said the R70X still brings out treble detail nicely.

As a warm bassy can with clear mids,smooth treble and nice detail throughout the spectrum I can recomend the R70X to you.

 

[XenatR]

R70X has slightly lesser but much deeper bass then the A900X. Particularly so if you are looking for a good subbass rumble. A900X bass is puncher but lacks the details that the R70X provides making drum and synths feel more "natural". R70X can have sharp punchy bass but only when the song calls for it while A900X thends to make more things punchy.

Mids wise A900X has a larger female vocal hump so directly A/Bing with the R70X female vocals sounds more forward. That being saild R70X is still audio technica and has the female vocals boost be it not as much. Makes the R70X have equally engaging male and female vocals.

Treble both A900X and R70X are recessed giving focus to the mids. That being said A900X is peakier while the R70X is smoother. Imo I prefer R70X trebble to the A900X. That being said the R70X still brings out treble detail nicely.

As a warm bassy can with clear mids,smooth treble and nice detail throughout the spectrum I can recomend the R70X to you.

Thank you!
How is the sound stage? I watched a review by Z on YT and saw his opinion that they have a small sound stage, much like the HD 600. I really need a larger sound stage to my A900 to accurately pick out opponent in the fps games i play

 

[llysender]

Thank you!
How is the sound stage? I watched a review by Z on YT and saw his opinion that they have a small sound stage, much like the HD 600. I really need a larger sound stage to my A900 to accurately pick out opponent in the fps games i play

Ah if you need a significantly larger soundstage than the A900 then the R70X may not be for you, I would call the soundstage of the R70X natural being slightly larger at around 19cm from the middle of the face while the A900X being 14cm from middle of my face. Naturally this is a very unscientic number based on how I hear and is just an aproximation. That being said the imaging on both the A900X and R70X is very good based off youtube video