[digger945]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Much of the difference, I suspect, lies in the power supply and the output stage, and not in the conversion itself.

From what I have read, I would be inclined to agree with you Sherwood. I think it is in the very initial stages of analog creation that you will find the differences.

Interesting the fuss about the new Sabre chip in the Buffalo lately.

 

[Omega]

The Sabre chip is exceptional because of the well-executed integrated reclocking. Again, as previous posters have pointed out, the issue is separation of variable and implementations. It may or may not have superior digital-to-analog conversion, that is separate from how it handles clock and jitter. (queue the chorus objecting to how jitter and clock are inseparable from any DAC solution

)

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, as I said in the first post, I already read that article and the resulting DAC. However, I'm not convinced that the Behringer necessarily sounds better than even cheaper DACs, such as a moderately priced soundcard. Looking at graphs tell me that the chaintech AV-710 is pretty much as good as it needs to be. However, I don't know enough about the devices/what the measurements precisely mean and the psychoacoustics behind them to actually come to any conclusions. I guess what I'm asking for is either: A) What's the threshold of audibility, if any objective data (blind tests et al) on the subject exists, for soundcards? B) If not (and I assume this is likely the case that not much objective data is available), what should I look for spec-wise when picking a DAC? I know that specs aren't everything, but I think they're useful, at least moreso than the "listening tests" for DACs which, while fine and good and fun to read, don't really SAY much. I don't remember exactly, but I know a glowing review was given of a DAC that was essentially a 10-bit DAC. I think there's too much subjective "fuzziness" that I'd rather stick to the incomplete picture that specs give me.

It's a knee-slapping good time when I read reviews of the V-DAC being warm, and the EMU 0404 USB being bright despite both having a ruler flat FQ response, THD+N levels far below human audibility and dynamic range and SNR figures that exceed the specs of a CD.

Truth be told, most decent DACs in a modest price range produce output that technically measures "identical" insofar as the specifications fall within the boundaries of human audibility. If a DAC measures flat and quiet, than it's bloody flat and quiet - period.

....Unless of course electrical engineering is a huge conspiracy and science isn't to be trusted.

 

[royalcrown]

Catharsis: I would say I agree, as my original post was a few months shy of a year old. Since then, I have researched extensively into DACs, and (as my initial hunch seemed to indicate) I found RMAA testing is the way to go. Once I learned a bit more about circuit abstraction it all made a bit more sense. While I do think that measurements cannot tell you what a speaker sounds like, they can tell you whether or not an amplifier or DAC is audibly perfect. That, coupled with a lot of blind testing over tons of components landed my setup where it is today, and I couldn't be happier with the sound. I still get people insulting me/my setup from time to time (someone once told me I couldn't appreciate a pair of sennheiser HD280's because I didn't have good enough equipment) but even if my stuff comes in an ugly blue box I still like it.


EDIT: To anyone wondering, a chaintech AV710 is not audibly transparent. It (at least mine) has a channel imbalance of over 1 decibel and over 0.05% THD. Probably not a huge deal for someone on a budget, but improvable nonetheless.

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif Catharsis: I would say I agree, as my original post was a few months shy of a year old. Since then, I have researched extensively into DACs, and (as my initial hunch seemed to indicate) I found RMAA testing is the way to go. Once I learned a bit more about circuit abstraction it all made a bit more sense. While I do think that measurements cannot tell you what a speaker sounds like, they can tell you whether or not an amplifier or DAC is audibly perfect. That, coupled with a lot of blind testing over tons of components landed my setup where it is today, and I couldn't be happier with the sound. I still get people insulting me/my setup from time to time (someone once told me I couldn't appreciate a pair of sennheiser HD280's because I didn't have good enough equipment) but even if my stuff comes in an ugly blue box I still like it. EDIT: To anyone wondering, a chaintech AV710 is not audibly transparent. It (at least mine) has a channel imbalance of over 1 decibel and over 0.05% THD. Probably not a huge deal for someone on a budget, but improvable nonetheless.

Ha! We have the same equipment, and that's likely because we've reached the same conclusions. (see my sig)

 

[WesMiaw]

RMAA measurements lack information on changes as a function of time and multiple tones.

e.g. if I got a 1kHz sine wave to come out perfect, but it took me 0.01s instead of 0.001s to form it, I would still get perfect THD+N measurements. RMAA also won't identify errors as a result of complex tones changing over time, instead of steady-state sine waves.

 

[Catharsis]

Actually royalcrown, just out of curiosity, how did you come upon choosing the Presonus HP4 as your headphone amp?

I found it to be significantly clearer than the LD MKIII (though the specs, and tube vs ss technology would provide some explanation). I've compared it to a FEW other ss amps and found them to be equally transparent, but I'd like to know your experience if you don't mind me asking.

Thanks!

 

[DoYouRight]

Though I was EXTREMELY happy with my creative card on my laptop for years, I am building a Buffalo just for the fun and experience, and to feel that I don't need to upgrade anything but MUSIC for awhile.

Unless the DAC colors the music, I find anything with a good component is the same.

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouRight /img/forum/go_quote.gif Though I was EXTREMELY happy with my creative card on my laptop for years, I am building a Buffalo just for the fun and experience, and to feel that I don't need to upgrade anything but MUSIC for awhile. Unless the DAC colors the music, I find anything with a good component is the same.

I totally agree with you. To be honest, the actual CD (album) that I happen to be listening to has the biggest bearing on sound quality. Personally, if the album itself is the bottleneck in sound quality, the goal of fidelity has been achieved with respect to audio components.