New Stax 717 vs. old SRM-3

Feb 7, 2006 at 8:51 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 25

edstrelow

Headphoneus Supremus
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My new Stax 717 arrived in the mail today from EIFL Japan. I have been running a number of Stax phones from a couple of SRM-3 amps and an older SRA 12-S preamp/headphone amp. The SRA 12-S still runs well as a pre-amp although the headphone amp has been problematic for some years, but since it only runs low bias, I have not bothered fixing it. The SRM-3's run fine but I have wanted to try a newer model. Stax has put out both the 313 and the 717 since the SRM-3.

The Stax 717 is the biggest of the Stax transistor amps, it weighs about 12 pounds, runs about 45 watts and delivers 450 volts. This is about 50% more than any other Stax amp, although I am not sure how this compares with the various non-Stax amps such as the Gilmore and McAlister.

Cost-wise it is almost $3K US from the local dealer but only $1200.00 from EIFL Japan. I chose EIFL because of past successful dealings and because they sell the unit adapted to US 117 volts, rather than Japanese 100 volts as does Audiocubes. Apparently it is all to do with the fuse panel inside the unit.
I should probably open it up and take a photo for general information.

I am now in the process of checking the amp out/breaking it in with 3 different Stax phones. While you can just plug phones in and get a decent result, I personally believe that Stax phones need to be warmed up, used regularly and left plugged in, even if not turned on, to get the best sound.

I started with a set of Lambda Nova pro's which had been in use on an almost daily basis with the SRM-3. I pulled out the SRM-3 and plugged the 717 in its place, using its power cord, IC's and the like, and started some serious listening after about an hour's warm-up. The most striking initial observations were the marked increase in detail. I was listening to a Purcell vocal piece and heard a cello accompanying the harpsichord, for the first time. The bass was clearer and somewhat more powerful, as was the treble. In fact the treble was slightly edgy, but this cleared up after the unit was on for a few more hours. Still the most striking feature was the increased detail. It was like the intremodulation distortion was markedly lowered. For example two soloists singing, stood out very clearly from each other, they seemed to be standing so distinctly in different locations that I could reach out and touch them.

Later in the day I took the unit home and plugged it into its intended location, as a headphone amp with a CEC 51z belt drive CD player, Musical Fidelity A324 DAC and Monarchy Jitter reducer. The phones were old Stax Sigma pro's that had been listening to for a few weeks.

The Stax Sigma is an old design, which predates the Lambda models. It is often described as a pair of shoe boxes on the head. It takes the diaphragms away from the ear and places them facing forward and back. The sound is thus projected over the ear, somewhat in the manner of normal listening to real sounds in space. I am unaware of anything like them still being made and for all their ugliness, I wish that Stax would still make them. There is somewhat more sense of forward projection of sounds with them, as opposed to "in the head" sound with most phones. But their biggest strength is a big improvment in airiness and ambience of sound and I particularly like them with vocal/choral music. They have somewhat of a lower-mid bass peak, especially when not warmed up, but generally thiis is acceptable. As well, because the diaphragms are moved away from the ears, they are notably less efficient than Lambdas and sometimes seem to distort in loud choral passages.

So what, I wondered would the 717 do with them. Most strikingly, there was no more of the sense of distortion and running out of power that the SRM-3 gave. Now pop music rocked, classical music crescendos were clean and powerful. Everything was just cleaner, in sound, the soundstage was wider and I was experiencing some real eargasms.

Evidently much of the edginess which is often attributed to Stax phones, is an amplifier issue. These types of phones appear to need the 450 volts the 717 gives. I do not believe that any of the other Stax amps exceed 350 volts and some are less than 300 volts. the SRM-3's I believe are 280 or 300 volts

For the moment I am enjoying the Sigma's too much to plug in the Lambda 404's, Stax's current high end Lambda model and second to the prohibitively expensive Omega's. I will probably give them a shot in few days though.

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Feb 7, 2006 at 4:01 PM Post #2 of 25
Quote:

Evidently much of the edginess which is often attributed to Stax phones, is an amplifier issue. These types of phones appear to need the 450 volts the 717 gives. I do not believe that any of the other Stax amps exceed 350 volts and some are less than 300 volts. the SRM-3's I believe are 280 or 300 volts


If I remember correctly, all pro-bias stax outlets provide 580 volts, while normal-bias stax outlets provide around 280V, maybe less. The stax amps do differ in output power, though. (45 watts... now that is one hefty headphone amp
lambda.gif
)

PS: Judging by the age of your gear... you wouldn't have an SR-5 gold collecting dust somewhere in your headphone colection, would you?
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Feb 7, 2006 at 4:10 PM Post #3 of 25
WE NEED PICS!
 
Feb 7, 2006 at 4:47 PM Post #4 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachikoma
If I remember correctly, all pro-bias stax outlets provide 580 volts, while normal-bias stax outlets provide around 280V, maybe less. The stax amps do differ in output power, though. (45 watts... now that is one hefty headphone amp
lambda.gif
)



He's talking about the 'Maximum Output Voltage' of the driver units and not the bias voltage. SRM-006t provides 300V and SRM-007t provides the maximum output voltage of 340V, while SRM-313 and SRM-310 output 350V. SRM-717 provides the most maximum output voltage among the current lineup at 450V. Legendary (and hard to find) SRM-T2, which was developed to be paired with the original Omegas, had the maximum output voltage of 630V.

IIRC, KGSS outputs 700V, while KGBH outputs 800V.

And yes, SRM-3's maximum output voltage is 300V.
 
Feb 7, 2006 at 8:18 PM Post #5 of 25
"Judging by the age of your gear... you wouldn't have an SR-5 gold collecting dust somewhere in your headphone colection, would you?"
Tachikoma

No I don't. What is it with these SR-5 Gold phones? Are they some unknown gem? This is the second reference I have seen to them in about a week.

I am currently trying to get another broken down pair of Sigma's repaired and converted to "pro."
 
Feb 7, 2006 at 8:23 PM Post #6 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt Peanuts
He's talking about the 'Maximum Output Voltage' of the driver units and not the bias voltage. SRM-006t and SRM-007t provide the maximum output voltage of 300V, while SRM-313 and SRM-310 output 350V. SRM-717 provides the most maximum output voltage among the current lineup at 450V. Legendary (and hard to find) SRM-T2, which was developed to be paired with the original Omegas, had the maximum output voltage of 630V.

IIRC, KGSS outputs 700V, while KGBH outputs 800V.

And yes, SRM-3's maximum output voltage is 300V.



Excellent reply. I just looked up my SRM-1/MKII, not too shabby on the max voltage.

Specifications for SRM-1/Mk2 Professional
Frequency Response: DC > 20kHz (+/- 1db)

Distortion: 0.01% (1 kHz)

Input Level: 100mV

Maximum Output Voltage: 370V (1kHz)

Bias voltage: 230VDC (Normal); 580VDC (PRO)
 
Feb 7, 2006 at 10:01 PM Post #7 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow
"Judging by the age of your gear... you wouldn't have an SR-5 gold collecting dust somewhere in your headphone colection, would you?"
Tachikoma

No I don't. What is it with these SR-5 Gold phones? Are they some unknown gem? This is the second reference I have seen to them in about a week.

I am currently trying to get another broken down pair of Sigma's repaired and converted to "pro."



Could you let us know about that conversion - cost and ease of doing it (ie whether modifications to the Sigma body was required)? I suspect all that needs to be done is drop a lambda pro diaphragm and cable set into the Sigma body.
 
Feb 8, 2006 at 9:37 AM Post #8 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow
"Judging by the age of your gear... you wouldn't have an SR-5 gold collecting dust somewhere in your headphone colection, would you?"
Tachikoma

No I don't. What is it with these SR-5 Gold phones? Are they some unknown gem? This is the second reference I have seen to them in about a week.



Wouldn't know till I hear them (the "gem" part
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), but from what I've read, I think they are upgraded SR-5s. (hopefully they are more efficient than the original SR-5s, too)

Maximum output voltage is a new term to me... so how does it apply to vintage stax energizers?

Jahn's right. WE NEED PICS. Particularly of those showing you wearing the stax sigmas.
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Feb 8, 2006 at 1:26 PM Post #9 of 25
Maximum Output Voltages of various Stax energizers:
SRD-X 210VRMS
SRM3 250VRMS
SRM T1/T1S 300VRMS
SRM 006t 300VRMS
SRM-007t 340VRMS
SRM-310 350VRMS
SRM 313 350VRMS
SRM1 Mk2 Pro 370VRMS
SRDP/SRDX Professional 380VRMS
SRA-14S 400VRMS
SRM-717 450VRMS

Possibly some of the lower powered energizers are marginal with respect to driving some of the less efficient phones (e.g the Sigma/Sigma Pro). The SRM-3 may not quite make it whereas the SRM1Mk2 seems to be OK in that regard. It's sad that Stax appear to be abandoning the non-pro outputs.
 
Feb 8, 2006 at 3:53 PM Post #10 of 25
I'm interested in the observations of the differences between the SRM3 and 717. I have in my possession the SRM3 (solid state), SRDXPro (portable, battery powered should you desire) and SRMT1S (tube). I've hankered after a 717 for some time.

I have to say, through either my Lambda Pro Sigs or Nova Sigs, I'm not sure I could tell in a blind test what energiser I was listening to. I can't detect any difference in the "sonic signature" between the tube and solid states. I do feel there may just be more detail and clarity in the solid states, but I couldn't swear to it. All of which makes me suspicious as to just how much of an improvement the 717 would give over what I have already.

Interestingly, the kind and knowledgeable chap who runs Simply Stax here in the UK rates both the SRM3 and my SRDX Pro extremely highly. He did say to me that I'd have to go right up to the 717 to get any appreciable improvement.
 
Feb 8, 2006 at 4:22 PM Post #12 of 25
The adaptors also have a maximum output voltage but since the tranformers in them work on a fixed ratio it is dependant on the amp driving the adaptor.

It is great to have the added voltage but you have to be carefull with the volume control. The Blue Hawaii makes it look so easy to drive every headphone you can end up with some very high volume levels.
 
Feb 8, 2006 at 8:30 PM Post #14 of 25
Re: the SRM-3, an old Stax listing shows its voltage at 300 not 250, but shows some of the smaller amps such as the SRXh at 250 volts.http://www.stax.co.jp/ENG/NOVA-SYS-E.html

As to the differences between the 717 and the SRM-3, I would say based on the Lambda Nova and Sigma Pro's they are significant to the point that I don't like going back now to the older systems. I am just starting to listen with the 404 and again I am getting this sense of very clean, listenable sound with very precise spatial localization, more realistic tonal timbre and better dynamics and a lot more toe-tapping with the 717.

How much to pay for this amp? It is hard for me to say that $1,200.00 is a good price for a headphone amp, but I have also seen it listed at $2800.00. As with many things in audio, you only get the full benefit of a pricey component if you have other good things in the chain. So if you have already invested a lot in your system, you will probably hear better things with an amp like this than if you have a marginal set-up.
 

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