new source?
May 31, 2002 at 11:37 PM Post #16 of 30
Quote:

Originally posted by markl
IMO, if you buy an expensive CDP that plays neither DVD-A or SACD, you have just thrown your money away. It's already obsolete, and when that finally sinks in 12-18 months from now, no one will want to buy your Redbook only CDP.

markl


/me shrugs. Even if in two-three years SACD kicks in big time and nearly everything starts being released on SACDs only, etc., I would just get myself a decent SACD player, not a big deal. For now, given 100% of my current CD collection consists of redbooks, I don't want to spend additional money for the electronics I'm not planning to use any time soon.

And yes, my home Toshiba SD9200 supports both DVD-A and HDCD. Yet to buy a disc that would actually use any of that :wink: .
 
May 31, 2002 at 11:46 PM Post #17 of 30
Fine. Be that way. You can lead a horse to water...
cool.gif



markl
 
Jun 1, 2002 at 1:46 AM Post #18 of 30
I don't believe there is anything inherit in SACD that makes them "lousy" CD players and I think that exagerration is only intended to push people over to an extreme viewpoint.

Here is a generalization thath olds a little more water:
* There are greater differences between low-mid level digital sources than there are in higher end products. By this, I mean that it is more likely that when people generalize a characteristic associated with that source that it more often has some basis in truth and that you're more likely to notice it. Ie, Brand X is bright, brand Y is smooth.

With that in mind, search the forums for Sony SE players. Search specifically for comments about the 555ES, 333ES, etc. You'll find that in many cases they too have sonic signatures that some people like a lot and others like not so much.

You'lll also find other things to be consistent about the Sony line of players--features they tend to concentrate on, that they tend to have a lot of features, that they have good warranties, etc. A lot of people want to think tese things come free--I don't agree that they do. If you have a lot of features and warranties, etc. that comes out of a budget. Some people would say they can afford to cut more corners because they sell more units--get better deals on bulk parts, because the cost of the R&D is spread over a greater number of units, etc. Some people think it balances out--others disagree.

One paragraph above illustrates that while many people say Sony products subjectively sound the best for the money, others do not. The second paragraph illustrates that while some people appreciate Sony's abilities as a company, others do not.

What is my point exactly? That the low end Sony CD players are NOT a one-size-fits all solution. That it is not so simple to categorically say "Brand X makes the best of this product at every price point no matter what your needs or preferences are." THIS is the statement from Team Sony that I find so disagreeable.

What I will agree with is that you should audition the SACD players. You shouldn't let the "value added feature" of SACD detract from your consideration of the Sony players before you've given them a chance. You should audition them and comparably priced players and decide what's right for you in your system.

I would take SACD seriously. I would consider that it is an inevitable coming thing that you may want to take part in--especially if you like recordings that tend to get the audiophile treatment (Classical and Jazz classics and classic Rock albums) as some of them are already here and more will certainly follow prior to mainstream success of SACD if mainstream success is achieved. I'd consider it... but I'd also consider how much of this will make up your listening time now and I'd consider how soon you think you'll plan to upgrade your source again. If you'll be buying another CD player in two or three years anyway, maybe you'll get a second chance to decide whether SACD is a more important feature to you.

(Sorry for the soap box, but I've been wanting to address Team Sony for a while.)

Personally, for my taste, I don't care for the redbook performance of the lower Sony SE SACD players. I don't find them horrible or anything but I don't find them as satisfying as other comparably priced players and DACs. When faced with a decison that fit the budget of the 555ES, I took the ART DI/O. You might prefer the 555ES. Vertigo prefered the 9000ES to his fully modified ART DI/O. To be sure, none of the options at this price point approach perfection and taste varies.

For my taste, I also don't find favor with the Linn gear. I have yet to hear the famed CD12 and expect to feel differently about this flagship product. For the Classik, Ikemi and Genki, I felt I could get something more right for me at comparable price points. For me, the Linn players were a little bright and a lot smooth. They seemed to glass over details and not reveal the Z-plane depth that I was looking for in their price points. Depending on your priorities, I can see how someone would like them a lot. For me, the "layering" effect of subtle variations in dynamic response and space surrounding the musicians takes precedence over the smoothness. These opinions are only mine, by the way and I imagine other people may have had polar opposite expeiences with Linn--that seems common with me especially amongst fellow HeadFiers. Therefore, threat this only as an example and a reason why you should consider trying to audition yourself before making a decision.

As I've stressed before, when it's your cash and your ears, it's your opinion that matters. Don't let me or any of the proponents of other hardware cause you to second guess that.
 
Jun 1, 2002 at 1:51 AM Post #19 of 30
He who writes most isn't always right-- that includes me. Good luck!

markl
 
Jun 1, 2002 at 2:07 AM Post #20 of 30
I strongly suggest you go with a transport/dac combo. I would have to second meridian cdp's. Meridian also constantly offers upgrades to their products as technology develops. I would strongly reccommend a meridian transport/DAC setup.
 
Jun 1, 2002 at 2:15 AM Post #21 of 30
Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer
I strongly suggest you go with a transport/dac combo. I would have to second meridian cdp's. Meridian also constantly offers upgrades to their products as technology develops. I would strongly reccommend a meridian transport/DAC setup.


The Meridian 588 1-box that Headroom has on their tour seriously kicks some ass, but it's also quite expensive.

I'd love to hear more of their gear.
 
Jun 1, 2002 at 6:10 AM Post #22 of 30
Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1
It's been five years already since the introduction of the format and nobody has yet to make an SACD or DVD-A player with superior redbook to everything around its price range


Sony did, with the 333ES. Not at its original ($1200) price, but definitely at its street price for most of its lifespan ($400-$500). I have yet to hear any Redbook-only CDP in that price range sound better at Redbook playback.
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 4:52 AM Post #24 of 30
zzz -- sorry I missed this thread, otherwise I would've recommended the Rega Planet. I've heard the Arcam, and I think the Rega is superior. Yes, Vert, I know you disagree based on what you heard out of the Jupiter. We know already. I still think the Rega Planet is superior.
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 5:07 AM Post #25 of 30
zzz,

i think you'll be very happy with the arcam. our systems are very similar and the detail extraction of the alpha 9 is excellent... if you ever get inclined changing the caps is a very audible improvement (had a friend switch auricaps in for me).

congrats on the purchase! many here apparently feel differently, but to my ears the alpha 9 is still very competitive to the majority of sub $2k players on the current market.

best,
carlo.
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 9:08 AM Post #26 of 30
Quote:

Originally posted by Dusty Chalk
zzz -- sorry I missed this thread, otherwise I would've recommended the Rega Planet. I've heard the Arcam, and I think the Rega is superior. Yes, Vert, I know you disagree based on what you heard out of the Jupiter. We know already. I still think the Rega Planet is superior.


i havent heard the new rega planet 2k but the original rega sounded muddy and undetailed to my ears.. i dont think it sounds better than anything, not even my pcdp. rega seems to draw two very extreme opinions, unless you get a chance to demo it.. i wouldnt recommend it.
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 9:21 AM Post #27 of 30
Quote:

i havent heard the new rega planet 2k but the original rega sounded muddy and undetailed to my ears..


The new Regas sound the same as the old then. I didn't think it sounded better in any way then a Denon DCM-370. Quite disappointing considering one retails at $1700 and the other at around $300.
 
Jun 7, 2002 at 5:36 AM Post #28 of 30
Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1
The new Regas sound the same as the old then. I didn't think it sounded better in any way then a Denon DCM-370. Quite disappointing considering one retails at $1700 and the other at around $300.


What?!? The Planet retails for...uh...I don't know, but it can't be US$1700, I think you're thinking of the Jupiter. The Planet streets for less than US$1K.

And I would have to completely disagree with the Planet sounding muddy. "Solid", to me, "right". I do not know from whence the disparity comes. The only thing I can think of is that there are impedance issues.

Anyway, I've seen enough dissenting views that I would have to agree with the sentiment that you should audition it in your system.

But again, it's a moot point.
 
Jun 8, 2002 at 1:28 AM Post #29 of 30
Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer
I strongly suggest you go with a transport/dac combo. I would have to second meridian cdp's. Meridian also constantly offers upgrades to their products as technology develops. I would strongly reccommend a meridian transport/DAC setup.



Can't disagree with that. Personally, I have a Krell MD10 and Krell Studio DAC in my system (see profile below) and just love it.

I've spent around £4k (thats Pounds Sterling ) on audio stuff this year. I could have bought any SACD player I wanted but didn't as I don't see the point yet. Maybe you guys have heard something I haven't?



Also got a 5yr old Rotel RDD/RDP980 trasnport/DAC in my second system that is just great.




Sound As Ever
smily_headphones1.gif

Currently listening to: Neil Fin - Try Whistling This
 
Jun 8, 2002 at 4:57 AM Post #30 of 30
Trawlerman

Maybe I've heard something you didn't? What have you heard?
smily_headphones1.gif


SACD definitely has more information than CD. If the same disc exists in both formats, all else being equal, the SACD sounds better. It's the getting everything else to be equal that's the challenge. Personally, I look forward to there being Meridian and Wadia SACD players on the market. I'm not sure how soon that will be but I imagine they'll kick some serious ass when they arrive.

Meanwhile... for people who want SACD or for those who don't, one cost effective solution is to buy a good base player and look at aftermarket modifications to bump it up to a higher level. It looks like I'm going that route as I found a player that's not bad for the price in stock form and reportedly gets way better with modifications--the Sony XA777ES. I personally did my best to judge it without considering SACD since the bulk of my listening won't be SACD and recommend you do the same, but like I said, if all else is equal, it's a nice value added feature.

One thing that has really surprised me in my source hunt is how much I didn't like a couple of well known and well respected brands--namely Linn and Proceed. I'm sure the Somdek CD12 and Mark Levinson No. 39 earn their respect but the low-mid products from these two companies really disappointed me. And alas, I never got to hear the Carys.
 

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