[Possum]

I've sent the following summary of my thoughts on several of the top universal IEMs by PM twice already, so I figured I'd post it in the forum. Note that these are only my impressions based on my ears, and will most definitely differ from what other people hear.

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Believe it or not, I think the Sleek SA6, which I just got on Monday, with Bass+ and Treble+ ports sounds more balanced than any of the other top IEMs I've tried recently.

I have issues with a lot of the latest IEMs. In the Westone 3 thread, there were posts about it having problems with piano sounds being veiled, and drums not sounding right - this is exactly what I hear. A term "pianissimo" was used in one post, and this reminded me of my piano playing days (12 years worth) where I'd use the left-most piano pedal during some pianissimo passages to quiet down the sound. This pedal puts a cloth or other pad material on the piano strings, preventing the strings from vibrating freely and effectively muting the sound. To me, the other recent IEMs (X10, UM2, TF10, Westone 3, IE8) have similar flaws with this midrange frequency, which affects piano, snare drums, and some voices. Other people say they don't hear the same problems, so it probably depends on the person and the ears. I don't hear these flaws with most of the full-sized headphones I've owned. It was ultimately this problem with piano sounds that lead me to my IEM decisions.

To me, the Sennheiser IE8 sounds very similar to the TF10 with a few differences. The IE8 has a deeper, more tuneful bass, but the bass sounds too foward and loud, sometimes being overwhelming. The TF10 has more sparkle on the very very high frequencies. The midrange and soundstage are very similar.

The Westone 3 also has a deep and tuneful bass, but the bass is less present than the IE8 and TF10. There's slightly more detail than the IE8 in the very high frequencies, but you have to use the right tips (silicon/rubber, not foam) to get the detail. The midrange is more recessed than the TF10 and IE8, so singers sound like they're slightly behind the instruments on stage. Soundstage with these earphones was very weird, very unnatural to me. It sounded like everything was coming from just inside of my ears, with separate left and right sound, rather than coming together to form a seamless picture of soundstage like the IE8 and TF10.

The X10 sounded completely wrong to me in the midrange, and I knew right away that I didn't like them. It's been a few months since I've heard them, but I think the midrange and treble were very very recessed compared to the other IEMs. The bass was a bit boomy, but fun though.

So compared to full-sized headphones like the HD600, I think there are two main groups of IEMs. One group is biased towards upper midrange and lower treble sounds (Etymotic ER4P). The other group is biased towards lower midrange and bass sounds (X10, UM2, Westone 3, TF10, IE8). If you go from the HD600 to either of these groups, it sounds OK. But if you go from one group to the other, it sounds completely wrong, just because the jump is so big. In my opinion, only the Sleek SA6 with both + ports so far sounds like the in-between of those two groups. It is still lacking the deep bass body of the second group and a bit of upper-midrange of the first group, but it is the most "centered", without being as biased as the other IEMs.

 

[ZoNtO]

Thanks for posting your impressions! Maybe I should give the sleek's a try.

So are they then your favorite for piano? How did you feel their performance was on guitars and vocals?

 

[AlexP]

If only there weren't so many reports of SA6 breaking down

For us Europe people, sending them to the USA for service isn't as easy as it sounds. I really wanna try the Sleeks but this issue puts me off.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

Thanks for the write up Possum. I'm a bit puzzled for your comments about the X10's midrange, since it's the only IEM I've tried so far that for my taste makes voices sound acceptably right, while no perfect though. So I wonder if you have owned those phones and have tried different tips and fitting, or your judgment comes from a somewhat casual listening.
In any case I agree that they'd belong to the warm and towards bassy group of IEMs.

 

[Possum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexP /img/forum/go_quote.gif If only there weren't so many reports of SA6 breaking down For us Europe people, sending them to the USA for service isn't as easy as it sounds. I really wanna try the Sleeks but this issue puts me off.

Yes, it is obvious that the build quality is low when you first handle the SA6 in person. I'm trying to minimize the amount of tube changing I do, since one of the driver housings already doesn't hold the treble tube very tightly. These were purchased second-hand from someone who's had them since CanJam 2008.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoNtO /img/forum/go_quote.gif So are they then your favorite for piano? How did you feel their performance was on guitars and vocals?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a bit puzzled for your comments about the X10's midrange, since it's the only IEM I've tried so far that for my taste makes voices sound acceptably right, while no perfect though. So I wonder if you have owned those phones and have tried different tips and fitting, or your judgment comes from a somewhat casual listening.

Guitars sounded pretty good on all of the IEMs, but some from the lower mid/bass biased group struggled with certain acoustic guitars. The ER4P and SA6 did not have problems with these acoustic guitars.

I was more critical of piano, percussion, and vocals. Both the ER4P and SA6 do these well, but I notice a slight bump in the upper midrange or lower treble in the ER4P that makes voices sound a bit too airy. It sounds to me like the SA6 and ER4P have the most forward vocals, which I like. From memory, I think the UM2 had good vocals too, except for one frequency range which caused some singers to sound slightly veiled. The IE8 and TF10 put the singer about on level with the instruments, with maybe the IE8 slightly forward and the TF10 slightly behind. The Westone 3 has the vocals farther behind the instruments.

When I purchased the X10, I heard an obvious recession in the midrange, affecting focals, when I tried them for the very first time. I took them to work the next day to re-listen to them, and still heard the same thing. The default tips fit very well, and the seal seemed good since I was getting a full bass sound.

I think I may naturally be less sensitive to midrange frequencies, like vocals, and more sensitive to bass and treble, which causes my preference to be towards IEMs with a forward midrange. Then the IEMs with a midrange that sounds fine to others may sound recessed to me.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

I see... maybe you just placed them too far inside the ear canal. I've been using the X10 on my commutes to work daily for a couple of weeks, and I've noticed that being as tiny as they are, I can easily push them too inside the canal, then the sound becomes very bassy with a clear recession of the highs and the midrange timbre going nuts. Seal is great and also isolation, but sound sucks that way. On the other hand, if I just push them into the ear canal entrance far enough as to get seal to have "decent" isolation and being able to hear the bass, then the midrange is quite right and the treble is just slightly rolled of, which I tend to like, it's clear enough, but never sibilant or strident. Looks like users of other phones like the W3 have noticed a similar effect. I haven't noticed such thing on other IEMs like the Triple.fis or 530.

 

[Possum]

Moving the X10 farther in or out from the ear canal didn't significantly change the overall sound character that I heard.

 

[robm321]

Thanks for the comparisons.

I've always felt that the piano and violin are the hardest instruments to reproduce properly and use those types of recordings to judge the merit of speakers and headphones, so it is regreshing that it was a baseline for your opinion.

 

[toughnut]

Thanks again Greg. Your experiences with all those IEMs are greatly appreciated.

 

[AmanGeorge]

Glad to hear someone saying that if I love my ER4, I might have hit a personal sweet spot that is difficult to improve upon.

 

[the_dong146]

Owner of the X10 and very satisfied with them.

Agreed that the midrange is not the strong suit (came from the Shure line of earphones before) - but not sure I would say it's as weak as you seem to have experienced.

After all these posts - maybe I should investigate the SA6s at some point in the future.

 

[PixelSquish]

good read.

 

[Nai_Maew]

Ummm, good summary. I'm in dilemma too. My UM2 broke down and I need new pair of IEM (using my back up, UE superFi.5pro, for now).

I was aiming to get a pair of Westone 3, but feel that it is a bit pricey. I heard that the price of IE8 in Europe is a lot cheaper than Westone 3. Seems like this is a good choice in this economic condition

Will visit Hong Kong before the new year, anyone can give me the idea on how much the IE8 is sold there?