My first experience with a Non-OS DAC... (Gigalab Moon DAC)

Oct 12, 2008 at 12:53 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 26

doobooloo

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I've been interested in non-oversampling DACs for a while, but never had a chance to hear one. Recently I purchased a Gigalab Moon DAC on eBay to finally give them a shot. At $200 shipped for a nicely built 8x TDA1543 unit plus a host of input options including USB, I thought I needed to give it an audition.

Anyway, my current digital sources include a Headamp pico, a modded Echo Mia MIDI (AD8620 opamps + Blackgate output caps), an RDL RU-AEC1, and a trusty iPhone. Before I got the Moon DAC I had been switching back and forth between pico and Mia MIDI. Using an Etymotic hf2 connected to a Headamp GS-1 w/ stepped attenuator to do an A/B comparison (very easy as it has 2 inputs and the pico has variable output to match volume) my impressions of the two were as follows:

--> Echo MIA MIDI sounds almost tube-like, lush and rich midrange that isn't fatiguing and has a lot of texture. However, micro details are lost and at times sound a bit colored, and soundstage is a little narrow. But, because the texture is alive with an emphasis on midrange warmth, it can be very fun to listen to.

--> Headamp pico clearly delivers far superior detail and soundstage versus Mia MIDI. I can hear things with pico that I couldn't hear with Mia MIDI. But, the sound is sterile and certain recordings can be quickly fatiguing. I guess versus Mia MIDI, pico clearly sounds more "digital" - details are more sparkly and alive but at times details sound unnatural and I feel like I'm listening to the recording, not the music.

Anyway, both have their strengths and weaknesses, and I've been enjoying them both as complementary pairs. And then came the Non-OS DAC. Here are my first impressions of this unit:

--> Details are even more present than the pico, but it's got a liquid character rather than the edgy sparkly character of the pico. As a result (or in addition) soundstage is huge and real, even with the Etymotic hf2. To my ears, everything sounds more "right" than anything else I've come across, and the least colored especially in the upper range. However, I thought the midrange was relatively recessed compared to the amazingly realistic upper spectrum, and as a result certain tracks tended to sound as if the vocals were distant. This was particularly true compared to the Mia MIDI, and at times on certain tracks I felt like I was listening more to the composition rather than the vocals. That said, its overall sound was of coherence and air - instruments sounded real and soundstage was breathtaking.

I've been listening to this unit extensively, and overall I'm very impressed. I'm not sure if it's because my other oversampling digital sources just don't cut it, but the pico is supposed to be an excellent DAC implementation and its signature is very similar to or better than other digital sources I've tried in the past so I hope that's not the reason. All the sometimes-questionable theory behind Non-OS DACs behind, the Moon DAC really delivered some of the most realistic listening sessions yet for many of my recordings. I felt like a layer has been peeled off my music and I was getting closer to the tonality and texture of the recording. In other words, there was plenty of detail that didn't sound scrambled up and fatiguing during complex passages as is often the case with the pico, and my brain would agree to what's coming in and say, "that sound right" - and I think that's pretty good!

Of course this is just my personal preference, and I'm a bit bummed I didn't try Non-OS DACs sooner. I'm actually going through my recordings to see what I've been missing so far. Also I'm not sure if this is just the particular implementation of the Moon DAC that gives it this type of sound, and I'm anxious to try other Non-OS implementations.

Not sure how aligned my experience is with others on this forum, I'd love to know!
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Oct 12, 2008 at 11:06 PM Post #5 of 26
Yeah, I would pretty much agree with your assessment - though I have no experience of the DAC you mention, I do ahve a monica 2 DAC. What you say about the detail and resolution is spot on, and also the depth and recessed nature. What I reckon is that they won't do teh depth of field that some DACs will but they are a lovely listen. Particualrly on headphones they seem to go vey nice. I have another NOS DAC on order so I'm pretty interested to see does it continue the trend.

Fran
 
Oct 17, 2008 at 3:00 PM Post #8 of 26
One thing I will add here, the NOS sound is more organic thus sounds more like real music compared to upsampling dacs that sound more HI-FIish. I find the Paradisea to be an excellent Dac for the money once it's dialed in with proper intercons, power cord and tube.

Phill
 
Oct 17, 2008 at 11:36 PM Post #9 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by doobooloo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
However, I thought the midrange was relatively recessed compared to the amazingly realistic upper spectrum, and as a result certain tracks tended to sound as if the vocals were distant.


TDA1543 DAC's end sound is all about the output stage, i.e. passive vs active and how it's implemented.

If done decently, the midrange should NOT be recessed *at all.*

It sounds like you're describing the sound of the opamp used as the output stage IMO. A full-on discrete output stage would be expensive and unexpected at this price range anyway.

Even if passive output is used, it would be too low in output with TDA1543 x8, and then the quality of output capacitors would be key.

I'm getting fairly great results with TDA1543 x16 with passive output and teflon/polystyrene output capacitors. Very solid, dense, rich, and forward midrange here...
 
Oct 23, 2008 at 3:01 AM Post #11 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif
TDA1543 DAC's end sound is all about the output stage, i.e. passive vs active and how it's implemented.

If done decently, the midrange should NOT be recessed *at all.*

It sounds like you're describing the sound of the opamp used as the output stage IMO. A full-on discrete output stage would be expensive and unexpected at this price range anyway.

Even if passive output is used, it would be too low in output with TDA1543 x8, and then the quality of output capacitors would be key.

I'm getting fairly great results with TDA1543 x16 with passive output and teflon/polystyrene output capacitors. Very solid, dense, rich, and forward midrange here...



Actually, I wouldn't describe the midrange as recessed - it's all there and clear, it's just that compared to the others the upper range details are so strikingly more real that they pop out far more in comparison. Now that I've spent more time exclusively with the moon DAC, the midrange definitely sounds very nicely textured and lush, not lacking in any way.

Plus the 8x TDA1543 configuration doesn't require an output stage as far as I know. Not an active one at least. There are no opamps in the moon DAC's signal path as far as I can tell.
 
Oct 23, 2008 at 3:09 AM Post #12 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelli /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Interesting !
I found there were 2 ~ 3 versions of NonOS TDA1543x8 DAC in the Ebay.

TDA1543, Electronics, Business Industrial items on eBay.com



Just saw the other 8x TDA1543 DAC in your link and I couldn't resist.
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Looks almost identical (down to the passive parts) as the moon dac but with a slightly different layout. When the new DAC arrives I'll post some comparisons although given the similarities and the relative simplicity of this type of DAC's implementation, I doubt I will be able to hear differences.

I wish you found that out a few days ago. Given how much I like this DAC I purchased a second unit for my couch listening last week that just arrived.
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Anyone want to take an unused moon DAC off my hands cheap as I wait for this other DAC to arrive?
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Oct 28, 2008 at 4:58 AM Post #15 of 26
I am a really big fan of NOS DACs.

Of the NOS DACs that I've owned, I'd rank them in the following order:

Red Wine Audio Isabellina
AudioSector USB DAC
iRoc USB DAC
Scott Nixon USB DAC

For the price (especially in DIY kit form), I think the AudioSector represents incredible value.

I haven't auditioned the Paridisea+, but I've heard good things about it.
 

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