Musical Fidelity Tube Buffer: X-10 V3

May 27, 2006 at 5:55 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 13

mrarroyo

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I have been reading a lot about this tweak. Originally I was very interested in adding it between my cd-player (NAD C542) and my tube headphone amp (either a MAD Ear Purist + HD100 or a MF X-Can V3). However lately I have read that some users are reporting about the added distortion being added.

I guess that there are two camps, those who love the unit and those who see not only no value but added distortion. I am wondering who here uses one and what has their experience been. Thanks.

mf-x10-v3.jpg
 
May 27, 2006 at 6:01 PM Post #2 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo
I have been reading a lot about this tweak. Originally I was very interested in adding it between my cd-player (NAD C542) and my tube headphone amp (either a MAD Ear Purist + HD100 or a MF X-Can V3). However lately I have read that some users are reporting about the added distortion being added.

I guess that there are two camps, those who love the unit and those who see not only no value but added distortion. I am wondering who here uses one and what has their experience been. Thanks.

mf-x10-v3.jpg



It's a rather strange idea to me, though it does help compensate for sources with particularly weak outputs but giving a very high input impedance buffer, with a more robust output stage. Those non-OS DAC's for example with passive I/V stages might benefit the most.
 
May 27, 2006 at 8:14 PM Post #3 of 13
I am in general very sceptical to lengthy and winding paths between a source and amplifier, such as >1m interconnects, switch-boxes, splitters, routing via loop-outs et cetera. But here, we might have something that, perhaps degrade the signal, but to many yields something that out-weights that, I think.

At least the X10-D v2 is clearly adding a very strong "tube magic" flavour, i.e. more life, fuller tonal colours, reverberation, isolation of instruments in the space and fruitiness in general. I use it on a regular base in a computer system, listening to high quality streamed radio to actually very good result. Mind you, it will not replace the good tube amplifier; there is a noticeably degradation in the signal quality, but for the one curious about the tube sound and being on a on a budget, a used X10-D v2 is certainly worth the money IMO.
 
May 28, 2006 at 12:40 AM Post #4 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod
I am in general very sceptical to lengthy and winding paths between a source and amplifier, such as >1m interconnects, switch-boxes, splitters, routing via loop-outs et cetera. But here, we might have something that, perhaps degrade the signal, but to many yields something that out-weights that, I think.

At least the X10-D v2 is clearly adding a very strong "tube magic" flavour, i.e. more life, fuller tonal colours, reverberation, isolation of instruments in the space and fruitiness in general. I use it on a regular base in a computer system, listening to high quality streamed radio to actually very good result. Mind you, it will not replace the good tube amplifier; there is a noticeably degradation in the signal quality, but for the one curious about the tube sound and being on a on a budget, a used X10-D v2 is certainly worth the money IMO.



Glod, it sounds like you would not be using it if you were in my shoes. I say that because either of my amps would be a tube amp or a tube/SS hybrid. Did I understand you correctly? Thanks.
 
May 28, 2006 at 1:50 AM Post #5 of 13
I brought my headphone rig in to a local MF dealer and spent an hour or two with one. The effect in my system was extremely subtle, if there was any at all. The unit's real use is evidently correcting bad impedance mismatches between source & preamp, although I'm not sure how you'd know if that was a problem with your system.
 
May 28, 2006 at 8:58 AM Post #6 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo
Glod, it sounds like you would not be using it if you were in my shoes. I say that because either of my amps would be a tube amp or a tube/SS hybrid. Did I understand you correctly? Thanks.


That is correct. I’m sorry, I wasn't clear about that.

I don’t think you will gain anything particular with adding a tube buffer in your set-up. It could even worsen the sound IMHO. And I am not commenting on the impedance matching part but purely on the fact that you already have the tube sound and adding a buffer would only add more complexity and cables.
 
May 28, 2006 at 1:31 PM Post #7 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod
That is correct. I’m sorry, I wasn't clear about that.

I don’t think you will gain anything particular with adding a tube buffer in your set-up. It could even worsen the sound IMHO. And I am not commenting on the impedance matching part but purely on the fact that you already have the tube sound and adding a buffer would only add more complexity and cables.



Thanks.
 
May 29, 2006 at 7:58 AM Post #8 of 13
If you want tube sound cheap, this is your choice. In my rig it does magic to the solid state sound between my E-MU 1212M and Rega Ear headphone amp. I will be getting X-Dac and X-Can with X-Psu in few weeks and then I can tell you more how it works with the hybrid headphone amp and other mentioned components it is designed for. For me it has been the best bang for the buck so far. No distortion what so ever.
 
May 29, 2006 at 8:03 AM Post #9 of 13
One thing popped in my mind about distortion. I did not intentionally "break-in" the X-10, but I remember that first few weeks there were days that I definately heard noticeable distortion especially in cymbals. In time distortion disappeared though and now after having used it for about three months the sound is crystal clear and "tubey" in a good way
biggrin.gif
 
May 29, 2006 at 10:09 AM Post #10 of 13
I bought one of these about two months ago and have been meaning to post a review on it, but never had the time to lately. I'll try to summarize what I feel about it here...for me it's been a positive addition to my system without a doubt.

The original reason I considered the X10 V3 was for my very modest speaker system built around just the simple Swan M200 computer bookshelf speakers, which is what I mostly use nowdays for music. I felt they were just a little edgy in the treble and was hoping to curb that a bit. They also just sounded a little flat and lifeless, and didn't have much soundstage depth to them. The other thing I had wondered over was considering that my source isn't exactly a slouch (Arcam FMJ CD23T), if adding the X10 could potentially degrade the sound rather than improve it at all. It came down to either trying the X10 or considering a new seperate source for the speakers, which would've been the more costly option. I chose to try the X10 first.

The next thing I had to consider was interconnects...by adding the X10 in, I would have to get another pair of pricey interconnects, as I suspected the interconnects would matter. And as I had anticipated, they indeed made a noticeable impact to the sound, particularly the pair running between the X10 and the speakers. I finally settled for a pair of Luminous Audio Synchestra References for the source to X10, and used my old standby Zcable Live V5 for the X10 to speakers.

Settling back for the listen didn't reveal any major tonal differences that I was expecting of tubes, and that impressions remained. The treble didn't suddenly get softer, the midrange didn't suddenly get more syrupy or warmer. What did change though was the bass...the M200s are not very good at deep bass to begin with, but adding in the X10 somehow added in additional bass depth. Whereas before some bass notes would get totally lost, I could now faintly hear them trailing off, though not nearly as well as a system that had a sub or better midrange driver.

While tonally there wasn't a lot of changes, there is something more subtle going on where the entire presentation sounds (or feels) just a bit slower, more lazy, and more relaxed. Things sound a little smoother. It's hard to pin down but when you're being surrounded by music in an enclosed space, it's a realization that sort of creeps up on you.

The biggest difference though was in the soundstage...it added considerable depth, in that I suddenly felt like things were playing farther away from me than before. Being that this was also a problem for the M200s, and it was a problem I never thought would ever change, I was very pleasantly surprised at this change, and this alone convinced me the X10 V3 was worth keeping.

While I didn't originally buy it for my headphone system, I did also take it for a spin there, and here I found that the X10 made a bigger tonal impact with pretty much stereotypical tube traits. The treble was slightly softened, midrange a little warmer, and the bass had a slight bit of rounding off at the very bottom end. Not too much happened as far as soundstaging goes though.

All in all, whether the X10 V3 is for you or not is probably going to be up to the rest of your system, as I'd imagine it's highly dependant on what else you mate it with. I wasn't expecting it to do a whole lot for mine being my source isn't bad, but that wasn't the case, and I ended up liking what it did quite a bit. It's certainly not cheap though as an accessory, plus you have to consider additional interconnects.
 
May 29, 2006 at 3:05 PM Post #11 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by lator
If you want tube sound cheap, this is your choice. In my rig it does magic to the solid state sound between my E-MU 1212M and Rega Ear headphone amp. I will be getting X-Dac and X-Can with X-Psu in few weeks and then I can tell you more how it works with the hybrid headphone amp and other mentioned components it is designed for. For me it has been the best bang for the buck so far. No distortion what so ever.


Look forward to your impressions, thanks.
 
May 29, 2006 at 3:08 PM Post #12 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertigo-1
...While tonally there wasn't a lot of changes, there is something more subtle going on where the entire presentation sounds (or feels) just a bit slower, more lazy, and more relaxed. Things sound a little smoother. It's hard to pin down but when you're being surrounded by music in an enclosed space, it's a realization that sort of creeps up on you.

...

While I didn't originally buy it for my headphone system, I did also take it for a spin there, and here I found that the X10 made a bigger tonal impact with pretty much stereotypical tube traits. The treble was slightly softened, midrange a little warmer, and the bass had a slight bit of rounding off at the very bottom end. Not too much happened as far as soundstaging goes though.

All in all, whether the X10 V3 is for you or not is probably going to be up to the rest of your system, as I'd imagine it's highly dependant on what else you mate it with. I wasn't expecting it to do a whole lot for mine being my source isn't bad, but that wasn't the case, and I ended up liking what it did quite a bit. It's certainly not cheap though as an accessory, plus you have to consider additional interconnects.



Is the amp you use for your speakers a tube amp? It looks for your headphone rig you are usin a SS amp, is this correct? Thanks.
 
May 30, 2006 at 9:07 AM Post #13 of 13
The speakers have a built in amp...I guess you could call it solid state. My headphone amp is a solid state.
 

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