MSB DAC owners

[tdx]

Never intend to use with speakers at all, yet I want to push susvara to do it's best period, they are speaker like in a way and scale very very high.

In that case is the MSB DAC the best choice? Don't get me wrong I use mine with my Susvaras and love it, but I also bought it cause it excels at speaker playback. You already have a super high end DAC with your Dave + extras, would the MSB sound that much better with just the Susvaras for a lot more $$? Anyway in no way am I trying to discourage you from trying MSB gear, you know from this thread how much I love their stuff.

 

[chesebert]

I've now spent a few days using the Antipodes K50 with the Premier DAC. Before getting it I was slightly worried that with MSB doing their best to isolate the DAc from upstream source variations the addition of a streamer/server would not yield any tangible benefits to the sound of the DAC. That is definitely not the case! Even though the MSB sounded great fed directly from my PC (especially with their optically isolated Pro USB input), the Antipodes takes the sound to another level. Increases in cohesion, flow and tonality are immediately apparent, and everything just 'gels' more, especially vocals.

I'm still experimenting with which output is the best, as they all sound good but slightly different. The new USB output that was implemented with their latest (G4) upgrade sounds excellent, and pairs really well with the Pro USB of the MSB using a FTA Sinope Cable. But AES (Jorma cable) also has its charm, maybe a tad less clean than USB but also a little more musical. Even Ethernet out is surprisingly good, maybe a happy medium between the two.

Other benefits include: not having to keep my PC on all the time anymore, a superb build quality for the case of the K50, and a super responsive and helpful after sales service from Antipodes.

So in case you couldn't tell, I highly recommend the addition of a streamer/server to MSB DACs. Even if one doesn't want to spend big bucks on the K50, a K30 or K22 or even one of their older units would still bring sonic benefits to the DAC.

Cheapo Shanlin ET3 as a streamer also gets you to the same place with a slightly warm and meaty sound.

 

[tdx]

After a lot of experimentation my final chain is now: K50 to MSB via AES/EBU and then to Riviera and on to the Susvaras. Funny how a protocol which is technically inferior to the Pro USB one ended up sounding better to my ears in the end. Only real drawback vs USB is I'm not able to output high bitrate music anymore, but the MSB does its thing so well with plain old redbook that I don't miss that for one second.

I say this often and eventually find better stuff to prove me wrong but as of now I hardly see how I could get a better chain than this. (Well maybe if I replace the Susavaras with Immanis. My gut says yes but my wallet says no )

 

[K3cT]

The prices for MSBs on older platform like the DAC IV or V have dropped to the point that they're lower than DACs like the Mola Mola Tambaqui or some variants of the Rockna Wavedream. Are they still worth buying in 2024?

 

[tdx]

The prices for MSBs on older platform like the DAC IV or V have dropped to the point that they're lower than DACs like the Mola Mola Tambaqui or some variants of the Rockna Wavedream. Are they still worth buying in 2024?

I've never had them personally but I heard they're good DACs. But they're definitely getting close to EOL or even already there, which means no more potential upgrades etc

Honestly for the price of a new Tambaqui or Wavedream Sig one can find a used Discrete or Premier (harder to find at that price but doable if patient). Those two models are still current in MSB's lineup (they're still sold on the website) and thus would get many more years of upgrades and support.

So if it was me that's the way I would go, but of course if one was to find a super cheap used DAC IV or V it might be a good enough deal to be worth it. After all even with no upgrades I'm sure they sound great!

 

[tdx]

Little update, waiting for final confirmation but 99% sure I'm getting a Digital Director for the Premier DAC. I will of course update this thread with my feedback once I receive it.

 

[tdx]

Just got the Digital Director today. I'll write a longer post once I've had time to get familiar with it, but even without spending a ton of critical listening time on it I can immediately say that it makes a substantial change to the Premier. Bass is much more layered and impactful, mids are even better refined and the highs have lost whatever slight hard edge they had before. Soundstage is massive but well filled in (doesn't feel hollow).

I know it's a big investment on top of an already expensive DAC. But for those who can swing it, you won't regret it!!

 

[tdx]

Ok I've spent more time with the Digital Director now. It basically has the same effect in my system as upgrading a DAC, especially when you upgrade in the same line to the next DAC up the ladder: everything the Premier did well, the Digital Director does better. Soundstage, bass, instrument placement, impact, timbre, etc everything goes up a substantial notch while at the same time the whole thing feels more relaxed and natural.

Funny thing is a few months ago I got a TOTL streamer/server (Antipodes K50) to see how much better the Premier would sound with a pristine source. And I did get a very nice uptick in sound quality compared to just the Premier by itself. But once I added the Digital Director between them, I A/B'd both with and without the Antipodes and this time I could not hear any difference. In other words, the Director brings all the good stuff that the Antipodes did but for less $$ and also as a better long term investment: the Antipodes, while awesome, will like all servers be obsolete one day and the only way to make it current again will be to upgrade it. Whereas the Premier with the Digital Director can be used much longer, basically as long as the DAC sounds good and doesn't hit some future technical limitation (although with their upgradable modules that might be fixed too).

So again i realize that this is a major extra investment but it's really worth it, and if one doesn't have the funds, the premier is still great by itself!

I'll have more thoughts to share later, and of course you can reach out if you have any questions about it.

 

[chesebert]

Just got the Digital Director today. I'll write a longer post once I've had time to get familiar with it, but even without spending a ton of critical listening time on it I can immediately say that it makes a substantial change to the Premier. Bass is much more layered and impactful, mids are even better refined and the highs have lost whatever slight hard edge they had before. Soundstage is massive but well filled in (doesn't feel hollow).

I know it's a big investment on top of an already expensive DAC. But for those who can swing it, you won't regret it!!

I have a 2 PBD dacs and I am using one like a digital director - all digital inputs go into one and then connect the 2 units together with playback ST fiber. I have cd transport and streamer connected to the “digital director”. I am not sure I would characterize the changes as substantial but I hear the same things as you and the changes are very obvious to me. Now my Utopia OG sounds pure, natural and harmonically rich with deep subbass and full and impactful bass. Soundstage actually got deeper and wider and far away instruments sound more real to me.

I think engineering principles behind digital director make total sense to me and more hi end dac companies should embrace this.

 

[icnaiwhimor1975]

Has anyone managed to figure out what's inside these DACs? I still don't understand what technology it uses, is it multibit or delta sigma or did they come up with something of their own?

 

[tdx]

Has anyone managed to figure out what's inside these DACs? I still don't understand what technology it uses, is it multibit or delta sigma or did they come up with something of their own?

I'm in no way technical enough to know the answer to this, the best I could do is quote the review that I read before I bought the Premier from Soundstage Ultra:

"Unlike most DAC makers, MSB uses no off-the-shelf DAC chips, but instead makes their own converters. Each of the four Prime DACs at the heart of the Premier is a fully balanced, discrete, ladder DAC. I asked Vince Galbo, MSB’s sales manager, to briefly describe ladder DACs:

The purpose of a DAC is to convert a digital code into a precise voltage which is the actual analog signal. MSB’s over 20 years of experience in [the] design and manufacture of discrete ladder DACs has resulted in the proprietary and novel Prime and Hybrid discrete DAC modules, used in all MSB DACs. MSB’s ladder DACs use precision-reconfigurable networks of resistors and switches to precisely convert your digital files into music. These are not your average simple ladder DACs, but an extraordinary core digital engine—a general-purpose toolbox of ultraprecision components. They can be configured to natively convert any existing formats, and any foreseeable formats that do not exist yet. The ultraprecise resistor elements can be configured as a direct-conversion DAC that is ideal for PCM conversion at nearly any sample rate and bit depth, or as a native DSD converter revealing an extraordinary SACD-DSD presentation for the finest DSD sound. The accurate signal is fully balanced from the point of conversion. The modules do not require any buffering with transistors, etc., because of the high voltage and current produced by these ladder converters."

I know, I know, a lot of marketing speak in there, but it's the fullest yet explanation I've found about their DACs. Plus the fact they sound so dang good means there's at least some truth in what they say

 

[barbz127]

Anyone have any thoughts on how the discrete+ dual PSU compares to the premier+ powerbase?
Thankyou

 

[tdx]

Anyone have any thoughts on how the discrete+ dual PSU compares to the premier+ powerbase?
Thankyou

The Premier with Powerbase will be better but the Discrete with dual supplies will still be an awesome DAC for the price, and the cheapest way to get your hands on some MSB goodness

Also if you end up getting the Discrete and later on get the itch to trade up MSB has a trade in option so you can get back some of the value of your DAC.

However keep in mind that only the Premier and up can be paired with a Digital Director which really makes a big difference in the DAC sound. But then the budget delta is even bigger vs the Discrete.

So my point is, get the Premier if you can, you will hear a difference in sonics. But if you can only afford the Discrete jump on it, you will not regret it. In my opinion there is very little at the price point of a used Discrete that compares, especially when you take into account the modularity of the DAC for future upgrades etc.

 

[barbz127]

Thankyou, currently own the discrete with the duals.

The upgrade to premier is always on my mind but unsure if it's worth it or what the sonic differences are.

I've been burnt with other brands from moving up the range where the higher units have lost the magic and brought on fatigue.

 

[tdx]

Hi all, unfortunately due to some unforeseen life changes I may have to let go of the Premier and Digital Director. If anyone is interested in getting them for a super low price feel free to pm me.