MMF5 Coming My Way, Need Wisdom!

[theScribe]

Hey guys, I been hanging in the Headphone Amp for a while and I thought to start posting here after reading for a bit. I found a great deal on a Music Hall MMF5 turntable on Audiogon. Picked it up for $245, and it just needs a replacement stylus for it's Goldring GX1012 cartridge. I want to order a phono pre soon, eyeing the Cambridge 640p or the Music Hall PA 1.2.

Should I get a stylus for the goldring or would a new Denon 103 cartridge serve me better?

Also, this is my very first turntable and when it comes on tuesday I have to set it up. Any advice? What about keeping LPs clean and pristine?

Thanks! So excited to be starting vinyl!

-JC

 

[NightOwl]

As I've said in previous posts of mine, I like the Cambridge 640p.
I also like the Denon DL103 a lot, but I've never found it to sound the way it should in arms like the ones on the Music Hall, Pro-jects, Audioquest tonearms or the entry-level Jelco arms. It starts to sound better in the Rega arms. It really shines in higher effective mass tonearms and more expensive arms.
You might be better off to look at the Denon DL110 or Denon DL160 rather than the DL103..

The Goldring is a very good cartridge that leans to a warm tonal balance. You can also move up in the range by replacing the stylus. The 1012, 1022, and 1042 all use the same cartridge body. The stylus is much better in each case as you move up the range. You might also want to look at an Audio-Technica AT150mlx depending on your budget.

If you don't have your table's manual, here is a link to it at Vinyl Engine. You will have to register on the site to download it. The site is also a great resource for all things vinyl.

Music Hall MMF-5 Owners Manual, Service Manual, Schematics, Free Download | Vinyl Engine

If you search, there are many posts about set up and record cleaning. Here are some links as introductions to both.

Galen Carol Audio Turntable Setup

How to Clean LP Records and CDs

 

[theScribe]

If the Denon DL160 was put head to head with the 1012, who would come out on top?

I am just thinking of ordering a 1042 stylus to put on my 1012, has the 1012GX been tested to install more advanced needles?

Thank you so much for your help!

-JC

 

[NightOwl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the Denon DL160 was put head to head with the 1012, who would come out on top? I am just thinking of ordering a 1042 stylus to put on my 1012, has the 1012GX been tested to install more advanced needles? Thank you so much for your help! -JC

It's been a long time since I heard the 1012. Most comparisons that I've read seem to prefer the DL160. It's more neutral and vibrant than the 1012.

If you like a very slightly warm sound, then I would order the 1042 stylus. It will work in the 1012 body (it's exactly the same cartridge body). The 1042 stylus has an advanced Fritz-Gyger S profile. It will provide more detail, soundstage, and presence than the 1012 while still being very smooth.
Though both will work, the Goldring will mechanically match your arm a little better than the DL160.

Here's a link to a review of the 1042gx.

Review - the Goldring G1042 Moving Magnet Phono Cartridge

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the Denon DL160 was put head to head with the 1012, who would come out on top? I am just thinking of ordering a 1042 stylus to put on my 1012, has the 1012GX been tested to install more advanced needles?

As Nightowl says you can't really look at the Denon carts without taking into account what tonearm they are mounted in. These are really pretty oldfashioned quirky designs which work well in lots of vintage and pro tonearms but are far from being universally praised in modern Hi-Fi ones.

I have been testing a Denon 103 on a Rega arm on a Vestax DD and it sounds lovely and romantic on lots of recordings but a bit crap on others. The conical needle isn't very forgiving of surface marks either, although it tracks pretty well considering. It's really desinged as a pro DJ cart for radio stations.

If I were you I'd stick with the Goldring as it's one of the best MM carts out there. Upgrading the stylus is as easy as pulling the old one out and slotting the new one in. As long as the old one is correctly aligned then the new one should be too. The 1012GX is a Fritz Geiger contact line stylus which is far better than anything you'll find on any Denon.

 

[theScribe]

I ordered a Goldring 1042 replacement stylus for about $210 from Mantra Audio UK.

I been reading about tuning the table, VTA adjustment, using the protractor to align, setting tracking force, tying on an anti-skating weight, putting playing cards under the TT to stabilize it, etc etc. This is much more complex than I thought, how minute (or extreme) will the sound change making these "little" adjustments?

Born in a world of digital and CDs, this is like DIY burger king "have it your way" of music. LOL.

-JC

 

[theScribe]

So just a rehash. This will be my new setup.

Goldring MM GX1042 Cartridge -> Music Hall MMF5 -> Cambridge Azur 640p Phono-Pre -> Audiotailor Jade (Sylvania BP 5751, RCA 6AS7G) -> Sennheiser HD650 Stock.

I heard the goldring is slightly warm with the table, the 640p a little cold, so i'm guessing the warmth of the Jade and the HD650 will balance it out?

-JC

 

[papomaster]

I have the mmf-5 with the original cartridge and stylus (although it is bent but it doesn't seem to affect the sound) and I am using it with a 540p phono preamp, which I have heard has the same MM section as the 640p. The combo sounds very neutral, although it tends on the mellow side of things. So for a cold or warm sound signature, the amp and phones will make the difference.

 

[theScribe]

Tell me something, did you ever realign the cartridge either VTA leveling or the calibration protractor?

Do you have any recommendations for setting up the table with your experience?

This is my first TT, ever.

-JC

 

[NightOwl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif So just a rehash. This will be my new setup. Goldring MM GX1042 Cartridge -> Music Hall MMF5 -> Cambridge Azur 640p Phono-Pre -> Audiotailor Jade (Sylvania BP 5751, RCA 6AS7G) -> Sennheiser HD650 Stock. I heard the goldring is slightly warm with the table, the 640p a little cold, so i'm guessing the warmth of the Jade and the HD650 will balance it out? -JC

The most effect on tonal balance will come from the cartridge and the headphones/speakers. The preamp and amp will have some effect, but it will be smaller. I don't think that the tonal balance will change much from what you experienced prior to adding the turntable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ordered a Goldring 1042 replacement stylus for about $210 from Mantra Audio UK. I been reading about tuning the table, VTA adjustment, using the protractor to align, setting tracking force, tying on an anti-skating weight, putting playing cards under the TT to stabilize it, etc etc. This is much more complex than I thought, how minute (or extreme) will the sound change making these "little" adjustments? Born in a world of digital and CDs, this is like DIY burger king "have it your way" of music. LOL. -JC

Before you make any other adjustments, your table has to be level.

VTA for any elongated profile stylus (which yours is) is very important. If it's not aligned properly, you could experience sibilance, noise, poor tracking and tonal imbalance. Hopefully the cartridge was aligned properly originally and you will just have to plug in the new stylus without having to make any further adjustments. Double check with a protractor to make sure that it looks aligned, especially parallel to the lines on the protractor. VTF will have some effect on the stylus rake (how close to perpendicular the stylus is to the record), so any other adjustments can be done after you set VTF.

The VTF for your cartridge is 1.5g to 2.5g. If your cartridge is aligned properly, then a lighter tracking force will cause less wear and tear on your records. However, the VTF will affect your stylus rake angle. More VTF will cause the tail of the the cantilever to drop, emphasising the bass. Less VTF will cause the tail of the cantilever to raise, emphasising treble. My feeling is that I would not exceed 2.2g and would probably track at about 2g. You will have to experiment with the VTF to get the sound you want. if you don't have one already, you should get a stylus force gauge like a Shure SFG2 for accuracy.

Anti-skating affects tracking. If it is not set properly, it can emphasise noise by scrubbing one wall of the groove. It will also throw off your channel balance. It may also cause damage to the record by wearing one wall of the groove. Over the long term it will probably bend your cantilever.

One other accessory that you should have is a carbon-fibre brush like an Audioquest. This will pick up dust just prior to playing the record, making the record quieter and causing less damage (pops and clicks).

Post if you need further explanation or advice.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by papomaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the mmf-5 with the original cartridge

Is this an Ortofon? that's what usually comes fitted to the Pro-Ject decks (they both come from the same Austrian owned Czech factory). Goldring carts are usually pretty expensive in the USA but have quite a different sound signature.

Getting all the little adjustments right is vital with a turntable as even though it can sound alright without it, to the untrained ear, you could be doing irreparable damage to your records.

In your beef analogy CD is more burger king, convenient and superficially fullfilling, but vinyl is like a good steak, cook it just right and it's one of the best sensations you can experience, too much or too little and it's just ok. It's a fine art you need to master to get it just how you like it but the rewards are worthwhile.

 

[papomaster]

No, it's the goldring 1012Gx. Really, it still sounds pretty good (tonal balance is good, soundstage is just as wise), but sound memory being what it is I can't seem to recall a big difference between now and what it was before the bend on the stylus. Also, the VTA doesn't seem to have changed and the stylus still looks as it goes on the record with a 90' angle. Also, the music hall tables have been aligned at the factory and the cartridges have been set up, so it should be aligned. Just check with the protractor to make sure.

 

[theScribe]

so i'm quite angry at the person who sold the table to me now. I'm remounting the cartridge back on the tonearm, and realize that he didn't include the mounting screws!

Can i get these things at the local hardware store? What type of nuts and bolts are they called?

So frustrating! After all that wait, and I'm missing a screw!!!

-JC

 

[NightOwl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif so i'm quite angry at the person who sold the table to me now. I'm remounting the cartridge back on the tonearm, and realize that he didn't include the mounting screws! Can i get these things at the local hardware store? What type of nuts and bolts are they called? So frustrating! After all that wait, and I'm missing a screw!!! -JC

That would annoy me too. They're called M2.5 bolts. IIRC you will need the nuts to go with them since the Goldring's screw holes aren't threaded. They have to be made of non-magnetic material (non-magnetic stainless steel, aluminum alloy, brass). Hex bolts (those that use an allen key to tighten) are easier to use and attach more firmly (don't overtighten so that you deform the cartridge body) than slotted bolts. An audio shop that sells phono cartridges should carry sets of cartridge mounting hardware.
Here's a link to what a good set looks like.

Michell Cartridge Mounting Kit at Cool Gales, where buying hi-fi is a breeze

Be careful, because most bolts available at places like Maplin's are magnetic zinc plated screw steel. This will affect the sound from your cartridge.

 

[theScribe]

Got the TT setup!

VTA alignment and getting those darn screws in took me over 2 hours. But in the end, it's so worth it. Giving it a listen now and I'll give impressions soon!

-JC