Magnepan MMG- Will Harman Kardon AVR525 HT Receiver Drive These???

[thelsuman]

Basically considering the maggies for use in a small den, where they would serve HT duty along with their main purpose- 2 channel or 2.1 channel listening.  There's a lot of information on the web indicating that these MMG require A LOT of power @ 4 ohms to reach their true potential, but I'm just wondering whether my current HT receiver- a HK AVR525 (bought circa 2001) would be adequate to drive the MMG's until I found room in the budget for a better power amp.  HK AVR525 specs indicate 85 watts/channel @ 8 ohms in stereo mode, but when I called HK support to ask about the 4 ohm ratings (not published), the rep said that the receiver would go into shut-down mode if I tried to connect 4 ohm speakers to the receiver's speaker outputs.  Well, let's just say that I found this HK rep to be less than credible (more speaking from script than any personal expertise), so I'm curious if the receiver would in fact work for the MMGs (assuming reasonable listening volume & crossover to sub @ around 80Hz).  I say this also because I've often read that HK's published power ratings are historically very conservatively stated (unlike some manufacturers' ratings) & I read one web account where an individual claims to have used the MMGs with the AVR525 with no problems.  My music tastes are mostly jazz, classical, classic rock,etc.  As for pop, hip-hop, rap, etc: not so much.  Thanks for any advice!

 

[thelsuman]

Anyone?

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Well, you ought to give it a try.  The worst that can happen is that the amp goes into protection.
 
If it does, you could get something like a used Adcom GFA-535, 545, or 555.  Even the lower-powered 535 would work fine and have no trouble with 4 ohm impedance speakers.  Adcoms are very reliable, have ample high-current capabilities, and sound great.
 
It's rated at 60 W/channel into 8 ohms and 100 W/channel into 4 ohms, but those are conservative measurements.  If you look carefully, you can probably get one for under $100.

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

Basically considering the maggies for use in a small den, where they would serve HT duty along with their main purpose- 2 channel or 2.1 channel listening.  There's a lot of information on the web indicating that these MMG require A LOT of power @ 4 ohms to reach their true potential, but I'm just wondering whether my current HT receiver- a HK AVR525 (bought circa 2001) would be adequate to drive the MMG's until I found room in the budget for a better power amp.  HK AVR525 specs indicate 85 watts/channel @ 8 ohms in stereo mode, but when I called HK support to ask about the 4 ohm ratings (not published), the rep said that the receiver would go into shut-down mode if I tried to connect 4 ohm speakers to the receiver's speaker outputs.  Well, let's just say that I found this HK rep to be less than credible (more speaking from script than any personal expertise), so I'm curious if the receiver would in fact work for the MMGs (assuming reasonable listening volume & crossover to sub @ around 80Hz).  I say this also because I've often read that HK's published power ratings are historically very conservatively stated (unlike some manufacturers' ratings) & I read one web account where an individual claims to have used the MMGs with the AVR525 with no problems.  My music tastes are mostly jazz, classical, classic rock,etc.  As for pop, hip-hop, rap, etc: not so much.  Thanks for any advice!

your receiver is fine. Mine run with an Outlaw 100W receiver and Magnepan uses a 35W NAD amp to run the pair in their lobby. The harman guy was an idiot and tyhat receiver should almost double down power into 4ohms. My outlaw puts out 190W into 4ohms

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

your receiver is fine. Mine run with an Outlaw 100W receiver and Magnepan uses a 35W NAD amp to run the pair in their lobby. The harman guy was an idiot and tyhat receiver should almost double down power into 4ohms. My outlaw puts out 190W into 4ohms

Most (or all) Harman Kardon receivers have pretty sensitive protection circuits.  I have an AVR80II and it will only run with 8 ohm speakers.  With 4-ohm or 12-ohm speakers it immediately shuts itself down as soon as you start sending power to them.  I actually wish it was less sensitive, because it won't run my 12-ohm Druids.
 
Please don't call someone an idiot, especially when he's probably correct.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

 
Quote:

Basically considering the maggies for use in a small den, where they would serve HT duty along with their main purpose- 2 channel or 2.1 channel listening.  There's a lot of information on the web indicating that these MMG require A LOT of power @ 4 ohms to reach their true potential, but I'm just wondering whether my current HT receiver- a HK AVR525 (bought circa 2001) would be adequate to drive the MMG's until I found room in the budget for a better power amp.  HK AVR525 specs indicate 85 watts/channel @ 8 ohms in stereo mode, but when I called HK support to ask about the 4 ohm ratings (not published), the rep said that the receiver would go into shut-down mode if I tried to connect 4 ohm speakers to the receiver's speaker outputs.  Well, let's just say that I found this HK rep to be less than credible (more speaking from script than any personal expertise), so I'm curious if the receiver would in fact work for the MMGs (assuming reasonable listening volume & crossover to sub @ around 80Hz).  I say this also because I've often read that HK's published power ratings are historically very conservatively stated (unlike some manufacturers' ratings) & I read one web account where an individual claims to have used the MMGs with the AVR525 with no problems.  My music tastes are mostly jazz, classical, classic rock,etc.  As for pop, hip-hop, rap, etc: not so much.  Thanks for any advice!

your receiver is fine. Mine run with an Outlaw 100W receiver and Magnepan uses a 35W NAD amp to run the pair in their lobby. The harman guy was an idiot and tyhat receiver should almost double down power into 4ohms. My outlaw puts out 190W into 4ohms

Not every amp and receiver doubles power (or comes close) when cutting the impedance in half - many can't supply that much power, although a surround receiver shouldn't have any trouble if they're the only power-hungry speakers running.
 
The real problem is if the receiver's amplifier is stable down to 4 ohms.  I'd expect an Outlaw or NAD to run down to 4 ohms too - but not every one can.  In particular, cheapies like a HTIB receiver (the ones that actually come with a real receiver), or the bottom-of-the-line ones from the Japanese may indeed go into protection.
 
But again, OP, give it a try.  barleyguy may well be right - but if he isn't, you won't lose anything by trying.  Just get an amp that can handle the loads then, and run it from your receiver's preamp output.
 
Actually, your receiver is excellent because not only does it have pre-outs for all your future amping needs, it has surround preamp inputs as well - that means that it won't go obsolete with any new audio or video formats in the future.  All you have to do is get a player that has analog surround preouts and hook it up.  For example, someone with an old Pro-Logic receiver with the same inputs/outputs could use it today with DTS-MA/DD TrueHD given the right Bluray player.

 

[thelsuman]

 
Quote:

 
Actually, your receiver is excellent because not only does it have pre-outs for all your future amping needs, it has surround preamp inputs as well - that means that it won't go obsolete with any new audio or video formats in the future.  All you have to do is get a player that has analog surround preouts and hook it up.  For example, someone with an old Pro-Logic receiver with the same inputs/outputs could use it today with DTS-MA/DD TrueHD given the right Bluray player.

 Thanks for the thoughts from everyone.  Ben, yep- I've considered this route since I don't have a blue-ray player yet.  Probably a model with 5-channel analog outputs would be best since (as you point out) I could then just use the amp stage of the AVR525, thus benefiting from the newer surround processing modes available on some players.  Looks like signs are pointing to giving the Maggies a try with my current receiver.  I know I'll be upgrading to a separate amp eventually, but this would give me a taste for now.  Thanks, Ben, for the Adcom recommendation- that'll be the first place I start when looking for a cheap power boost for the MMG's.

 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Looking more at the AVR 525 - I think I might have to pick one up used myself!  For the price and the features (as long as you don't care about routing video), it looks awesome.
 
The player I would get if I were going to get one in the near future is the Oppo BDP-93, for $500.  The list of features is absolutely crazy!
 
Bluray 3D
DVD & CD (of course)
SACD
DVD-Audio
HDCD
Netflix
Blockbuster
Wireless-N antenna built in, also ethernet (of course)
Dual HDMI 1.4a outputs - configurable as dual video or one video/one audio
eSATA port - for playing material off of hard drives (FLAC support!  No OGG though. Most video codecs except FLV. JPG, GIF, and PNG support too)
Dual USB 2.0 ports - same
PAL & NTSC support (i.e. North America/Japan + Europe/rest of world)
120/230 V compatible (again, i.e. North America/Japan + Europe/rest of world)
Actual 24 Hz video output
7.1 analog output (of course)
 
All of that is on top of the normal features (lossless audio, upconverting DVDs, etc.).  I'm not sure what DACs it uses though.  But that list of features is insane for the price.
 
It uses Cirrus Logic CS4382 DACs.  I'm sure they're implemented well enough that they sound great.
 
Of course, you may decided that Bluray is going to be updated again soon to cover Quad HD/4k video or something similar, in which case you'll need to upgrade again...  But I doubt we're all going to be owning such TVs in the next few years.  DVD lasted 15 years, so I'd say Bluray in its current form ought to last at least another 10 years, with it taking about 5 years or so from now before we start seeing lots of next-generation content.
 
The only caveat is that it hasn't been released yet.  Should be out soon though.
 
 
 
 
About the Adcoms - great value for the price, if you need power.  Some even say that the smaller ones sound better!
 
Here's what a GFA-555 (like I've got) looks like on the inside.  Look at the power capacitors!
 

 
Like I said, they're big, beefy, and reliable amps - there's not a whole lot of circuitry to go bad.  Just about the only thing to look for is anything burnt or corroded capacitors.

 

[Bones13]

As much as wattage is an issue for maggies, they need a lot of room too.  Recommendations have then well away from both back and side walls.  Be sure put significant dampening material behind those if they are close to a wall.  They have a HT set of the speakers now meant to mount on the wall.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

As much as wattage is an issue for maggies, they need a lot of room too.  Recommendations have then well away from both back and side walls.  Be sure put significant dampening material behind those if they are close to a wall.  They have a HT set of the speakers now meant to mount on the wall.

 
Good point.  Those on-wall speakers are the $300 MMG W - they get nothing but glowing reviews.  The downside is they need a sub as they're -3 dB at 100 Hz.

 

[golgi]

Quote:

As much as wattage is an issue for maggies, they need a lot of room too.  Recommendations have then well away from both back and side walls.  Be sure put significant dampening material behind those if they are close to a wall.  They have a HT set of the speakers now meant to mount on the wall.

Agreed, maggies ideally need around 3 feet behind and on the side to sound their best. 

 

[h1pst3r]

Hi,
 
This is my first post!
 
I have had the HK AVR 525 for 10 years and I've found there's nothing they can't drive. I presently have them hooked up to a 5.1 Vienna Acoustics setup including Bach Grand floorstanders and three Theatros for C/SR/SL. The Bach's are 4ohm, the Theatros are 6ohm, and the 525 drives them with ease: zero distortion at extreme volume over 5 channels and my 525 has never once gone into protection. I think I only ever heard the internal fan come on once (due to dumb placement).
 
10 years later and the beautifully thought out HK is pumping out uncompressed Dolby Digital and DTS on the latest blurays through the Sony BDP-S1000es connected via 7.1 pre-outs to the HK's 7.1 Pre-ins. The AVR525 was ahead of it's time and engineered wisely to remain future-proof to a pretty fair degree. I honestly didn't think that I would still be using it 10 years later when I paid $1000 for it a decade ago. But then again, my dad is still listening to his 40 year old HK and smiling!
 
The HK is an over-built, over-spec'd, 44lb monster with internal build quality that is unbelievable (for circa 2000). I also am lucky enough to own a vintage Sansui AU-717 integrated amp that is considered one of the finest to come out of Japan in the 1970's. The Sansui is a beauty (talk about old-skool build quality -- whoa!), but the HK side by side with it is hardly a welter weight. 
 
Hook up those maggies and let us know how it works out!
 

 

[MatsudaMan]

Maggies are infamous for their insatiable appetite for power!  However, they can be happy with modest power, as long as it is clean power.  All in one receivers tend not to have as robust power supplies as stand alone or even integrated amps.  They usually have one transformer to power up to 7 channels.  If money wasn't an issue, I'd go for some 250 watt mono blocks for each side.  If you can't do that, use a dual mono integrated of atleast 100 watts/channel.  But, it really just depends on how good you want them to sound and what kind of db levels your likely to listen to.  My buddy has some Maggy 1.7's powered by a Bryston 150 watt integrated amp and they sound glorious. 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

Hi,
 
This is my first post!
 
I have had the HK AVR 525 for 10 years and I've found there's nothing they can't drive. I presently have them hooked up to a 5.1 Vienna Acoustics setup including Bach Grand floorstanders and three Theatros for C/SR/SL. The Bach's are 4ohm, the Theatros are 6ohm, and the 525 drives them with ease: zero distortion at extreme volume over 5 channels and my 525 has never once gone into protection. I think I only ever heard the internal fan come on once (due to dumb placement).
 
10 years later and the beautifully thought out HK is pumping out uncompressed Dolby Digital and DTS on the latest blurays through the Sony BDP-S1000es connected via 7.1 pre-outs to the HK's 7.1 Pre-ins. The AVR525 was ahead of it's time and engineered wisely to remain future-proof to a pretty fair degree. I honestly didn't think that I would still be using it 10 years later when I paid $1000 for it a decade ago. But then again, my dad is still listening to his 40 year old HK and smiling!
 
The HK is an over-built, over-spec'd, 44lb monster with internal build quality that is unbelievable (for circa 2000). I also am lucky enough to own a vintage Sansui AU-717 integrated amp that is considered one of the finest to come out of Japan in the 1970's. The Sansui is a beauty (talk about old-skool build quality -- whoa!), but the HK side by side with it is hardly a welter weight. 
 
Hook up those maggies and let us know how it works out!
 

Welcome!
 
I hope you like it here - just be careful not to drop any f-bombs or any other non-FCC approved words, or the mods will pounce on you without warning and without regard for the context.  It happened to me and they're not friendly about it - not even enough courtesy to copy the post in the deletion notice.
 
Just wondering, did you Google your way here when searching about the AVR 525?  I'm quite impressed with H/K amps for low to mid power needs, and this has definitely peaked my interest in them.
 
A bit of warning though - despite your experience with them, don't think that they can power everything! 

  Try to feed a pair of big vintage Infinities and you'll have a dead amp in short order...

 

[h1pst3r]

Hi BlackBeard, thanks for the welcome (and the warning ; )
 
Indeed, with a bit of nostalgia I was googling (can't believe that's actually a verb) reviews on my trusty AVR525 and found this good thread here at Head-fi. I've lurked here researching gear for a bit, so, thanks.
 
Regarding the range of speakers that the HK can power, I think my post-holiday hyperbole got the better of me. My Vienna's despite being 4ohm are pretty efficient but I'm frequently surprised at the levels and clean sound that the HK can push when I'm driving all 5 speakers with an SACD. I guess I figured when I bought a mass-produced, consumer receiver (even a "flagship" one) that it would be on craigslist in a few years. I am always presently surprised that the HK is still here and still making me smile (and periodically making me jam some air guitar) all these years later. It's the only piece of gear that I've had that long.
 
While the evolution of gear has made me leverage more and more the HK's pre-ins and outs, I realize that's one of the specific reasons I bought the 525 in the first place. Lossless Bluray audio barely existed when I bought the HK in 2000, but tonight it will push 5 channels of it for movie night on the eve of 2011... cool!
 
Thanks again for the welcome and for the advice!
 
H1p.