Mac built-in sound card specs

[blessingx]

Anyone know where I can get some specs on my Mac's (dual g4 450) built-in (motherboard) sound card? Apple is hush hush on them and the very good Every Mac skips over the sound arena for some weird reason. Opening the box unfortunately doesn't help either. I'm a long time Windows user that switched about nine months ago, and while I may be under the illusion of the whole Apple/multimedia mind set, hoping the card has better specs than my old systems did. Sounds good, though usually output to an Xitel AN1. Anyone have a clue where to find the info?

 

[saronian]

Quote:

Originally posted by blessingx Anyone know where I can get some specs on my Mac's (dual g4 450) built-in (motherboard) sound card?

Apple dosen't offer much info. But they do have complete Hardware Developer Documentation online.

That link is for all hardware not currently in production. The sound specs usually only list Nominal/Typical unweighted SNR. So there's no way to get more detail.

I will say that the built-in sound from my PowerBook G4's CD audio is poor compared to most PCDPs

Scott

 

[Sean H]

Interesting, I was just wondering this evening how good the audio section is in my G4 and am contemplating trying an M-Audio Sonica to see if I would see an improvement. Any opinions? Also, anyone know if the PCM digital from the CD/DVD ROM or internet streaming audio is preserved right up the USB's port or if it's converted somewhere along the way to analog and then back to digital again before the USB port?

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally posted by saronian Apple dosen't offer much info.

That's an understandment...

Like other Macintosh computers, the sound circuitry and system software can create sounds digitally and either play the sounds through speaker inside the enclosure or send the sound signals out through the sound output jack

Thanks for the link though. At least I know not to keep trying. Wonder why Apple always treats its customers like they can't handle information? Easily the most frustrating thing I've found since switching over.

As for the Sonica, I'm curious about that also. I'm using an Xitel AN1/Hi-Fi setup right now and enjoy the sound running into my old Pioneer receiver. I wonder though how much advantage I'm getting from the Xitel when it's running through a relately cheap 25 foot gold tipped cable (which came with the Hi-Fi kit). It sounds slightly better than directly from my card now (better bass, smoother movement between highs, mids and lows). Will have to invest in a good cable before deciding on the Sonica (or M-Audios higher level options). Wonder what the length of a good digital USB cable can go without sacrificing the signal? As it is now the digital end is about four feet, the analog is 25. Seems like it would be better the other way, though I'm sure there's a reason for it not being so.

BTW, this thread relates.

 

[Sean H]

Funny, I read through that thread earlier tonight as well. Is the Xitel you have buffered at all? If it's not, like the Sonica, then yes, it would be ideal if you had a longer USB cable and a shorter analog cable. Usually they say the shorter cable the better in either digital or analog but in the case of a long USB cable it should not be very degrading as the signal is digital and not analog. Interesting to hear that it sounds a little better than the Mac's sound.

I just checked out the Xitel web site and I'm interested in the Pro HiFi-Link now. I just wish they would sell it without the cables for a cheaper price. I like the coaxial digital out opposed to the Sonica's optical out. Plus it's analog output is RCA, not 1/8" plug in the Sonica. I guess I'll do a search on the Pro model to see what the comments are for it.

EDIT: Wow, I guess the Pro-Link has both optical and coaxial digital out. Hmm...I wonder if it has a buffered output and I wonder what it's internal DAC is.

 

[scrypt]

Your Mac didn't ship with a sound card -- Apple computers are wired for basic sound already. If you had a physical sound card, you'd be able to open up your computer and see it in one of the PCI slots. You'd also see the outputs on the back of your computer, in one of the slotted positions.

A quick way to find out which cards *are* installed is to go your Apple menu, click on About This Mac, and select the tab marked Devices and Volumes. You'll be able to see the card type, card name, vendor ID, ROM number and other information.

Yes, of course you'll see an improvement with the Sonica card (or virtually any other sound card, for that matter). I'm not being sarcastic, blessingx. I just want you to understand there's going to be a difference because nearly any compatible sound card will be better than none. The outputs will be cleaner at the very least.

About your choices:

The Audiophile 2496 and Revolution are both said to work quite well with Macs running OSX. The latest driver for the Revolution even matches the latest OS release: 10.2.5. I haven't seen reports on the Sonica Theater with Macs, so I'm a wee bit leery. What I can tell you is that older G4s -- the ones that have conflicts in sleep mode with certain PCI cards -- are said to run the Revolution card without any issues in sleep mode whatsoever. A quick search in the Mac Discussion Forums will bear this out.

For the future, I'm keeping an eye on Logic Audio and its attendant hardware, since Apple bought the company. For now, I have a Mark of the Unicorn PCI-424 card to go with my hardware recording interface.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally posted by scrypt Your Mac didn't ship with a sound card -- Apple computers are wired for basic sound already. If you had a physical sound card, you'd be able to open up your computer and see it in one of the PCI slots. You'd also see the outputs on the back of your computer, in one of the slotted positions.

Thanks for your comments. Yeah, I was using "sound card" in the general sense- motherboard, PCI, or USB/Firewire external. There's something I don't understand though. Is it "a card is better than none", simply because included ones are so lousy (like video chips with shared memory)? I mean going through a PCI shot or any other connection is a step back than interfacing direcly on the motherboard, isn't it? Either way there's some DAC involved right? And my local Fry's has a bunch of $9-$14 cheap no-name soundcards I'd probably never put in my system. Know my built in is pretty bad (why I'm usually using the Xitel), but still curious what exactly it is. Wish there were specs somewhere. On to bigger questions though- have to decided if it is necessary step up from the Xitel Hi-Fi/AN1.

 

[scrypt]

Going through a PCI card isn't a step back if the digital to analog conversion is done by your PCI card or an external DAC.

For now, firewire and USB are inferior solutions to a pure PCI card in terms of efficiency (but not necessarily convenience).

The best way (for a music professional) is always to go through from a dedicated ADC/DAC to a card that simply provides good digital ins and outs, since a high quality ADC/DAC is going to be superior to whatever the card has onboard. That's why I use a Lucid 24/96 ADC with a Mark of the Unicorn 2408 and a PCI card to record into my G4. I highly recommend the Lucid, by the way, which I prefer to the Apogee ADC/DAC.

Still, my solution is fairly expensive. I'd think either the M-Audio Audiophile (if you want to use two channels to an external DAC) or Revolution (straight out to 5.1 receiver or powered speakers) would suit your needs.

I'm about to step out to run errands and meet friends, so don't think I'm ignoring you if I cease participating in this discussion for the next four to sixteen hours. It's a beautiful afternoon in New York.