Looking for a TRUE 5.1/7.1 Headset for Movies
Jan 13, 2018 at 7:19 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 9

chrisssj2

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Im looking for a quality DTS/Dolby Digital Headset for movies.

I own a Ultrasone Signature Pro. But I wish to experience a True 5.1/7.1 Headset. Im sure some will argue it's not worth it. But this is something I wish to experience myself.

Now my question is, which 5.1/7.1 Headset with the soundquality equivalent to the Signature Pro.(I hear the multi driver thing causes them to suck individually..)
 
Jan 13, 2018 at 9:47 PM Post #2 of 9
Single left and right driver headphones being fed a multichannel signal that is processed by a quality Head-Related Transfer Function (HRTF), such as Dolby Headphone, Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS Headphone, DTS Headphone:X, Creative CMSS-3D, or Microsoft Spatial Audio will always be functionally superior to multiple smaller drivers crammed into each headphone earcup. More on what an HRTF is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function

The latest version of Windows 10 comes bundled with Spatial Audio:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/spatial-audio/

You can get a free limited trial of Dolby Atmos for Headphones for Windows 10:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8

If you have a receiver with Dolby Digital/DTS and it has a headphone jack I think all the recent ones include Dolby Headphone and DTS Headphone modes that are triggered by simply plugging headphones into the headphone jack (i.e. the receiver will take the discreet multi-channel sound and then process it with a Dolby or DTS HRTF to properly create a 3D surround sound field that takes into account how sound from point sources in 3D space would reach both ears, something headphones with multiple drivers cannot do).

If you're interested in how good music can be, pick up a copy of R.E.M.'s 25 Anniversary Deluxe Edition of Automatic for the People mixed in Dolby Atmos:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017...ng-thing-to-happen-to-pop-music-since-stereo/

Hopefully someday the phone and DAP makers will realize they should be providing a way to optionally play back music with an HRTF (it needs to be optional because you wouldn't want to apply an HRTF to music which already has one baked in, like binaural recordings do).
 
Jan 14, 2018 at 4:58 AM Post #3 of 9
Single left and right driver headphones being fed a multichannel signal that is processed by a quality Head-Related Transfer Function (HRTF), such as Dolby Headphone, Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS Headphone, DTS Headphone:X, Creative CMSS-3D, or Microsoft Spatial Audio will always be functionally superior to multiple smaller drivers crammed into each headphone earcup. More on what an HRTF is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function

The latest version of Windows 10 comes bundled with Spatial Audio:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/spatial-audio/

You can get a free limited trial of Dolby Atmos for Headphones for Windows 10:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8

If you have a receiver with Dolby Digital/DTS and it has a headphone jack I think all the recent ones include Dolby Headphone and DTS Headphone modes that are triggered by simply plugging headphones into the headphone jack (i.e. the receiver will take the discreet multi-channel sound and then process it with a Dolby or DTS HRTF to properly create a 3D surround sound field that takes into account how sound from point sources in 3D space would reach both ears, something headphones with multiple drivers cannot do).

If you're interested in how good music can be, pick up a copy of R.E.M.'s 25 Anniversary Deluxe Edition of Automatic for the People mixed in Dolby Atmos:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017...ng-thing-to-happen-to-pop-music-since-stereo/

Hopefully someday the phone and DAP makers will realize they should be providing a way to optionally play back music with an HRTF (it needs to be optional because you wouldn't want to apply an HRTF to music which already has one baked in, like binaural recordings do).

My Receiver is an Onkyo TXNR 616. I am of opinion from what I read on the internet, virtual techniques can never be as good as true dolpy headphones atleast, it is something I wish to experience for myself. The spatial audio thing you mean Window Sonic for headphones? To be honest I didnt notice that much difference same as for Dolby Atmos. Atleast that is with music and videogames... (content not mastered in Dolby Atmos) Maybe its different for Dolby atmos content. But i like to think its because my ultrasone is stereo.
At any rate what Dolby Headphones hold the quality of my Ultrasone..?

BTW I got my hand on some flac/MP3 Files of this Album you speak off, but I am not sure how windows handles these files... Given they can come off original bluray. I think they miss the dolby atmos track info?
 
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Jan 16, 2018 at 3:45 PM Post #4 of 9
My Receiver is an Onkyo TXNR 616. I am of opinion from what I read on the internet, virtual techniques can never be as good as true dolpy headphones atleast, it is something I wish to experience for myself. The spatial audio thing you mean Window Sonic for headphones? To be honest I didnt notice that much difference same as for Dolby Atmos. Atleast that is with music and videogames... (content not mastered in Dolby Atmos) Maybe its different for Dolby atmos content. But i like to think its because my ultrasone is stereo.
At any rate what Dolby Headphones hold the quality of my Ultrasone..?

BTW I got my hand on some flac/MP3 Files of this Album you speak off, but I am not sure how windows handles these files... Given they can come off original bluray. I think they miss the dolby atmos track info?

Dolby Headphone is a virtual technique:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-headphone.html

"The Dolby Headphone processor combines the 5.1-channel audio information into two encoded channels that deliver the spatial properties of the original audio. The result is natural sound that seems to extend far beyond the confines of the headphones."

The Dolby HRTF is applied somewhere in the sound path (in a home theater receiver, in an external sound processor that takes a multichannel digital input such as a Turtle Beach Earforce DSS, in a USB sound card for a gaming headset, in software in a PC etc.). Dolby Headphone can "expand" a stereo source so it sounds more like speakers in a room (applying an HRTF to it) or it can take a multi-channel audio source (5.1, 7.1, etc.) and apply an HRTF for that so that it sounds more like multiple speakers in a room, i.e. creating a proper sound field where you can localize sounds around you and it doesn't sound like it's all in your head (which is what headphones sound like when a recording is not binaural and when no HRTF is applied, because sounds are being playing exclusively to one ear or the other which would never happen in the real world).

If you look at the multi-driver headphones out there, they are not Dolby Headphone solutions. Let's look at three major ones:

Razer Tiamat 7.1v2 https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71-v2
Roccat Kave XTND 5.1 Digital https://www.roccat.org/en-US/Products/Gaming-Sound/Kave-Series/Kave-XTD-5-1-Digital/
ASUS Strix 7.1 https://www.asus.com/us/Headphones-Headsets/STRIX_71/

The Razer Tiamat takes mutlichannel analog audio and that goes to a "control module" powered by USB which handles amplifying the analog signal to each of the drivers in the headphone, and it has analog passthrough for hooking up surround speakers. The Roccat Kave XTND Digital comes with a control module that is a USB sound card (so any sound card in the computer cannot be used with the Kave XTND, and the control module's speaker outputs are coming from the sound card in the module). There is also a Kave XTND Analog which doesn't have a large control module and instead takes in multiple analog sound channels from a sound card and is powered by USB. The ASUS Strix 7.1 acts as a USB sound card and (oddly) uses an HDMI connector port with a proprietary analog multi-channel break-out cable (giving the standard 3.5mm female mini jacks on the other end). It also has optional proprietary sound equalization schemes for specific genres (FPS gunfire mode, FPS footsteps mode, Action / RPG mode, Racing mode).

Speaking generally, there are a lot of issues that tend to be common to headphones with multiple drivers. They tend to be bigger, heavier, less comfortable, and not sound as good as headphones with single drivers in each cup. A well designed headphone will take a number of design measures to minimize things like reflections and vibrations that can cause ringing and unwanted distortions in the sound, and by cramming multiple drivers into cups the challenge for any headphone designer is greatly multiplied. And it has to be asked, what do multiple drivers crammed into earcups for surround sound accomplish exactly? Surround sound in a home theater accomplishes two things - it provides multiple discreet channels of sound delivered from specific physical locations in a room and re-routes different parts of the sound spectrum from the multiple channels to the most appropriate speakers (advanced forms of this are Audyssey MULTEQ XT32 and Trinnov Optimizer). A home theater receiver will at least know through the speaker setup what "size" speakers are (whether they are full range or not) so sound can be re-routed as necessary to the best speakers for playing back certain frequencies. We know that multi-driver headphones have different sized drivers, but this really seems unnecessary to me since it is possible to have a single driver that covers most of the full sound range well (unlike most full-size speakers in a room) and unlike in a room multiple drivers in a headphone are all next to each other, so what are they doing there besides making a headphone designer's life difficult? And they also don't create any sort of HRTF (i.e. there is no accounting for left channel sounds reaching your right ear and vice versa on the other side of your head with head equalization and timing without applying an HRTF even with multiple drivers, so it won't sound like natural surround sound simply being fed multiple surround channels of sound.

As far as Dolby Atmos on PCs goes, my only experience with it is with the game Overwatch, which has it built-in to the game under their headphone mode (independent of Windows). While I have PowerDVD on my HTPC, I haven't yet hooked up headphones directly to my HTPC and purchased the Atmos license and tried to use Atmos for headphones that way. I've heard different and sometimes contrasting anecdotes about Windows 10, Dolby Atmos, PowerDVD, Microsoft Movies & TV, and VLC Player. I can say that no FLAC or MP3 files of R.E.M.'s 25 Anniversary Deluxe Edition of Automatic for the People will be Atmos capable. Dolby Atmos can work as an extension to lossy (Dolby Digital Plus) or lossless (Dolby True HD) multichannel audio that places sounds in 3D space that includes height (elevation) which is why with a Dolby Atmos speaker setup you need to have either direct overhead mounted or bounced (front emitting angled driver reflected off ceiling) height channels. In the case of Blu-Rays with Atmos, you need to make sure you have ripped and preserve unaltered the Dolby TrueHD track with software such as MakeMKV, and then you have the hope of being able to play back the track (but again I'm not sure how easy it will be to get that rendered into a Dolby Headphone two-channel signal on a PC right now... maybe it will jsut work though with the right combination of software).

Most of my surround experience on headphones comes from Creative's CMSS-3D which works with DirectSound3D and OpenAL and legacy EAX titles via Creative ALchemy. I have my games set to 5.1 or 7.1 sound configuration and the Creative controls set to headphone and I get a very accurate spatial sound field that sounds very natural. Some games also use Blue Ripple Sound's APIs, which provides it's own control panel and the ability to select from a few different HRTFs. They also sell an advanced version which allows you to import your own personalized HRTF from an AES69 file. (Quick side note: unless you have a custom-made HRTF for your personal head and then use it with something like Rapture 3D Advanced, most HRTFs are generalized heads that won't exactly correspond 1:1 to your particular head, so listening even on the best headphones imaginable will not be exactly like speakers in a perfect room for you if the simulated head doesn't quite correspond to your own, but obviously they try to make the generalized simulated heads work well for most people.)

So in summary, I think you'll find that any good headphones (and from the Innerfidelity measurements page the Ultrasone Signature Pro are good headphones, unlike say the Ultrasone Edition 10 which you fortunately do not have) combined with a properly applied and quality HRTF being fed the best possible multi-channel signal is, I think, the way to go - not multiple drivers in a each earcup in a headphone.
 
Jan 17, 2018 at 2:59 PM Post #5 of 9
Dolby Headphone is a virtual technique:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-headphone.html

"The Dolby Headphone processor combines the 5.1-channel audio information into two encoded channels that deliver the spatial properties of the original audio. The result is natural sound that seems to extend far beyond the confines of the headphones."

The Dolby HRTF is applied somewhere in the sound path (in a home theater receiver, in an external sound processor that takes a multichannel digital input such as a Turtle Beach Earforce DSS, in a USB sound card for a gaming headset, in software in a PC etc.). Dolby Headphone can "expand" a stereo source so it sounds more like speakers in a room (applying an HRTF to it) or it can take a multi-channel audio source (5.1, 7.1, etc.) and apply an HRTF for that so that it sounds more like multiple speakers in a room, i.e. creating a proper sound field where you can localize sounds around you and it doesn't sound like it's all in your head (which is what headphones sound like when a recording is not binaural and when no HRTF is applied, because sounds are being playing exclusively to one ear or the other which would never happen in the real world).

If you look at the multi-driver headphones out there, they are not Dolby Headphone solutions. Let's look at three major ones:

Razer Tiamat 7.1v2 https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71-v2
Roccat Kave XTND 5.1 Digital https://www.roccat.org/en-US/Products/Gaming-Sound/Kave-Series/Kave-XTD-5-1-Digital/
ASUS Strix 7.1 https://www.asus.com/us/Headphones-Headsets/STRIX_71/

The Razer Tiamat takes mutlichannel analog audio and that goes to a "control module" powered by USB which handles amplifying the analog signal to each of the drivers in the headphone, and it has analog passthrough for hooking up surround speakers. The Roccat Kave XTND Digital comes with a control module that is a USB sound card (so any sound card in the computer cannot be used with the Kave XTND, and the control module's speaker outputs are coming from the sound card in the module). There is also a Kave XTND Analog which doesn't have a large control module and instead takes in multiple analog sound channels from a sound card and is powered by USB. The ASUS Strix 7.1 acts as a USB sound card and (oddly) uses an HDMI connector port with a proprietary analog multi-channel break-out cable (giving the standard 3.5mm female mini jacks on the other end). It also has optional proprietary sound equalization schemes for specific genres (FPS gunfire mode, FPS footsteps mode, Action / RPG mode, Racing mode).

Speaking generally, there are a lot of issues that tend to be common to headphones with multiple drivers. They tend to be bigger, heavier, less comfortable, and not sound as good as headphones with single drivers in each cup. A well designed headphone will take a number of design measures to minimize things like reflections and vibrations that can cause ringing and unwanted distortions in the sound, and by cramming multiple drivers into cups the challenge for any headphone designer is greatly multiplied. And it has to be asked, what do multiple drivers crammed into earcups for surround sound accomplish exactly? Surround sound in a home theater accomplishes two things - it provides multiple discreet channels of sound delivered from specific physical locations in a room and re-routes different parts of the sound spectrum from the multiple channels to the most appropriate speakers (advanced forms of this are Audyssey MULTEQ XT32 and Trinnov Optimizer). A home theater receiver will at least know through the speaker setup what "size" speakers are (whether they are full range or not) so sound can be re-routed as necessary to the best speakers for playing back certain frequencies. We know that multi-driver headphones have different sized drivers, but this really seems unnecessary to me since it is possible to have a single driver that covers most of the full sound range well (unlike most full-size speakers in a room) and unlike in a room multiple drivers in a headphone are all next to each other, so what are they doing there besides making a headphone designer's life difficult? And they also don't create any sort of HRTF (i.e. there is no accounting for left channel sounds reaching your right ear and vice versa on the other side of your head with head equalization and timing without applying an HRTF even with multiple drivers, so it won't sound like natural surround sound simply being fed multiple surround channels of sound.

As far as Dolby Atmos on PCs goes, my only experience with it is with the game Overwatch, which has it built-in to the game under their headphone mode (independent of Windows). While I have PowerDVD on my HTPC, I haven't yet hooked up headphones directly to my HTPC and purchased the Atmos license and tried to use Atmos for headphones that way. I've heard different and sometimes contrasting anecdotes about Windows 10, Dolby Atmos, PowerDVD, Microsoft Movies & TV, and VLC Player. I can say that no FLAC or MP3 files of R.E.M.'s 25 Anniversary Deluxe Edition of Automatic for the People will be Atmos capable. Dolby Atmos can work as an extension to lossy (Dolby Digital Plus) or lossless (Dolby True HD) multichannel audio that places sounds in 3D space that includes height (elevation) which is why with a Dolby Atmos speaker setup you need to have either direct overhead mounted or bounced (front emitting angled driver reflected off ceiling) height channels. In the case of Blu-Rays with Atmos, you need to make sure you have ripped and preserve unaltered the Dolby TrueHD track with software such as MakeMKV, and then you have the hope of being able to play back the track (but again I'm not sure how easy it will be to get that rendered into a Dolby Headphone two-channel signal on a PC right now... maybe it will jsut work though with the right combination of software).

Most of my surround experience on headphones comes from Creative's CMSS-3D which works with DirectSound3D and OpenAL and legacy EAX titles via Creative ALchemy. I have my games set to 5.1 or 7.1 sound configuration and the Creative controls set to headphone and I get a very accurate spatial sound field that sounds very natural. Some games also use Blue Ripple Sound's APIs, which provides it's own control panel and the ability to select from a few different HRTFs. They also sell an advanced version which allows you to import your own personalized HRTF from an AES69 file. (Quick side note: unless you have a custom-made HRTF for your personal head and then use it with something like Rapture 3D Advanced, most HRTFs are generalized heads that won't exactly correspond 1:1 to your particular head, so listening even on the best headphones imaginable will not be exactly like speakers in a perfect room for you if the simulated head doesn't quite correspond to your own, but obviously they try to make the generalized simulated heads work well for most people.)

So in summary, I think you'll find that any good headphones (and from the Innerfidelity measurements page the Ultrasone Signature Pro are good headphones, unlike say the Ultrasone Edition 10 which you fortunately do not have) combined with a properly applied and quality HRTF being fed the best possible multi-channel signal is, I think, the way to go - not multiple drivers in a each earcup in a headphone.

Thank you for your long explanation. I really do appreciate you taking time to answer me. I guess then I will stick with what I have. You convinced me.
Glad actually I can drop this idea lol. So then the question remains is, dolby atmos for headphones worth it, still have 10 days trails left, only listened to the demo, but to be honest the youtube version sounds darn good just as in the demo.(overwatch demo)
I also didn't know supposidly that headphone mode on your receiver does some Dolby Mixing.
I suppose home cinema is just very different to watch movies in surround then on headphones.

I upgraded from my Onkyo 616 to a Marantz 6011 today (onkyo died cuz of hdmi loss)
I am done setting it up, unfortunately im not getting DTS-HD- True HD- DTS:X and Atmos to the internal videoplayer of LG.
Same for Plex/Xplay. Just Dolby Digital, and DTS.
Selected a track on netflix (movie bright) with atmos audio, and it gave me Dolby Digital + signal. Nowhere it mentions atmos.

Note: i don't have actual atmos speakers yet. just 5.1 config. But I would think that wouldn't stop me of getting the Atmos signal on my receiver..?

On my PC however I am getting True HD, and Dolby digital + and DTS:X signal. But I can't seem to get HDR working there... soo yeah...
Plus the Atmos is also not showing on my pc. (perhaps if I actually have 2 atmos speakers it will enable it.. but somehow I doubt it)

So it seems I may have to buy a mediaplayer, that should solve my problem. not sure what the best/cheapest solution is though.
Anyway thank you for your time.

EDIT: I fixed my problem. If I turned on 2 atmos speakers (even if I dont have them) I can get atmos to show up on my receiver!
 
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Jan 23, 2018 at 6:05 PM Post #8 of 9
Thank you for your long explanation. I really do appreciate you taking time to answer me. I guess then I will stick with what I have. You convinced me.
Glad actually I can drop this idea lol. So then the question remains is, dolby atmos for headphones worth it, still have 10 days trails left, only listened to the demo, but to be honest the youtube version sounds darn good just as in the demo.(overwatch demo)
I also didn't know supposidly that headphone mode on your receiver does some Dolby Mixing.
I suppose home cinema is just very different to watch movies in surround then on headphones.

I upgraded from my Onkyo 616 to a Marantz 6011 today (onkyo died cuz of hdmi loss)
I am done setting it up, unfortunately im not getting DTS-HD- True HD- DTS:X and Atmos to the internal videoplayer of LG.
Same for Plex/Xplay. Just Dolby Digital, and DTS.
Selected a track on netflix (movie bright) with atmos audio, and it gave me Dolby Digital + signal. Nowhere it mentions atmos.

Note: i don't have actual atmos speakers yet. just 5.1 config. But I would think that wouldn't stop me of getting the Atmos signal on my receiver..?

On my PC however I am getting True HD, and Dolby digital + and DTS:X signal. But I can't seem to get HDR working there... soo yeah...
Plus the Atmos is also not showing on my pc. (perhaps if I actually have 2 atmos speakers it will enable it.. but somehow I doubt it)

So it seems I may have to buy a mediaplayer, that should solve my problem. not sure what the best/cheapest solution is though.
Anyway thank you for your time.

EDIT: I fixed my problem. If I turned on 2 atmos speakers (even if I dont have them) I can get atmos to show up on my receiver!

Dolby Atmos for headphones works great! I enjoy what I hear from my Xbox 1X and Plantronics RIG800LX
 
Jan 27, 2018 at 6:41 AM Post #9 of 9
I've been trying to find great headphones for movies as well, but using bluetooth. That's a whole different ballgame with aptx low latency etc. Do you guys have any recommendations as to bluetooth headphones for movies?
 

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