Lighting Connector to E17 DAC compatability

[GabeGz]

Im wondering since the new Ipod touch 5th generation will send a digital signal instead of analog, if it will now be fully compatible with the FiiO E17 DAC/amp. 

 

[dannytang]

The answer to your question has been answered by FiiO themselves in these threads:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/627336/issues-about-apples-new-lightning-connector
http://www.head-fi.org/t/596072/potential-for-fiio-clas-and-fostex-hp-p1-competitor
 
In short, no the lightning connector doesn't change anything. The 30-pin Dock Connector always had digital output along side it's analog output; so the Lightning connector is a downgrade of sorts in the audiophile world. However, with both the 30-pin Dock Connector and Lightning connector, the digital output is encrypted. To decrypt the digital output, the manufacturer needs the appropriate hardware from Apple. To get the hardware to apply for a MFi (Made for iPhone/iPod/iPad) license and pay licensing fees.  However, FiiO has already pointed out that they applied for MFi certification and was denied and they suspect that it's because they're based in China and Apple's not fond of giving such decryption hardware to Chinese companies.

 

[GabeGz]

Thank you! Thats exactly what i was looking for! But even without a MFi license can they still manufacture a lightning connector to 3.5 mm to connect the new Ipod touch to one of their amps or DACs so i can atleast bypass the ipods amp? If they can, the cord or DAC just wont decrypt tha digital signal right? Also do you think the ipods DAC is good enough or should i just try to find another amp/dac thats MFi certified?

 

[dannytang]

The digital signal needs to be decrypted to before the DAC can do it's job. Peter from Double Helix Cables has already taken apart Lightning connector cable and showed that there's a hardware verification chip in it, which means manufacturers would probably need a MFi license just to make the cable itself. So as it stands, no iDevice with a Lightning connector will work with anything but MFi products unless you use the 30-pin Dock Connector adapter which supports line out. 

 

[wuwhere]

Its all about $. Apple's new old theme is 'pay before you can play'.
Remember the firewire (aka 1394) cable? Apple owned it.
Apple made money on everything that used this connector.

 

[GabeGz]

All this just shows that if your on top of the game you can manipulate it however you want. Even though Apple can be greedy i don't complain because i still buy their products haha but hopefully FiiO creates an LO cord for the new Ipod because I want to get one of their amps so bad!  

 

[JamesFiiO]

What customer can do .
 
1, Buy a Lightning adapter , and still use the line out from the adapter . means : iPhone 5 ---> Lightning adapter------> LOD ( Line out Cable )------> Portable headpone amp.
 
    The question is the sound quality of the little adapter . and the set up will be a little complex and now easy to bundle together .
 
2, Buy a Portable DAC/Amp which support digital out of Lightning socket. means: iPhone 5----> Lightning Cable------->Portable DAC/Amp,
 
    The question is that most DAC/Amp with MFi licence is quite expensive ( more than US$300 or even more ). and there are very few portable DAC/Amp has such features.
 
3, Change to Android phone , like Samsung Galaxy SIII, there will pop up lots of Portable DAC/AMP which support Android Phone which OS is Jelly Bean 4.1 and support OTG.
 
    The quesiton is you have to change from Apple world to Non Apple world.
 
4, Buy a MP3 player with line out, like Sony's Z/X/F series, and iriver, or maybe FiiO's Digital Audio Player in the coming soon.

 

[GabeGz]

Quote:

What customer can do .
 
1, Buy a Lightning adapter , and still use the line out from the adapter . means : iPhone 5 ---> Lightning adapter------> LOD ( Line out Cable )------> Portable headpone amp.
 
    The question is the sound quality of the little adapter . and the set up will be a little complex and now easy to bundle together .
 
2, Buy a Portable DAC/Amp which support digital out of Lightning socket. means: iPhone 5----> Lightning Cable------->Portable DAC/Amp,
 
    The question is that most DAC/Amp with MFi licence is quite expensive ( more than US$300 or even more ). and there are very few portable DAC/Amp has such features.
 
3, Change to Android phone , like Samsung Galaxy SIII, there will pop up lots of Portable DAC/AMP which support Android Phone which OS is Jelly Bean 4.1 and support OTG.
 
    The quesiton is you have to change from Apple world to Non Apple world.
 
4, Buy a MP3 player with line out, like Sony's Z/X/F series, and iriver, or maybe FiiO's Digital Audio Player in the coming soon.

Im looking at these right now im gonna try to buy both!

 

[GloryUprising]

Quote:

 
 
4, Buy a MP3 player with line out, like Sony's Z/X/F series, and iriver, or maybe FiiO's Digital Audio Player in the coming soon.

 
Say WHaaaaA????? =D

 

[Awgd8]

I am planning to get the Fiio E7 or E17

Both seems to have a mini USB connection. Right now, I have an Ipad4 the newest model and it uses a lightning cable.

What if I buy this adapter from Apple? Lightning to Micro USB

http://touchreviews.net/apple-begins-selling-lightning-micro-usb-adapter-united-states/

Here is my plan,

IPAd4 -> Apple Lightning to Micro USB adapter-> Generic Micro USB to Mini USB cable -> FIIO E7/E17 (mini USB port)

Will this work?

 

[jazzman7]

The E17 needs a host device, so you need to reverse your thinking.    
 
Here's a device that allows the newest iPads with Lightning connector to act as hosts with limited functionality:
 
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter/
 
The only problem is, Apple devices don't provide enough power, so the E17 usually doesn't work with them.  I tried this with an older iPad2 and the (previous generation) Camera Connection Kit, and I got the familiar "unsupported device" error.  
 
By the way, these USB host dongles never worked with iPod touches and iPhones.  But you talk about iPad4 so there's hope.  
 
I would be surprised if the Lightning connector somehow solves this, though  But, someone needs to try it with a new iPad4/mini and the new Lightnning-to-USB adapter to be sure...

 

[Awgd8]

Jazzman7: Thanks a lot for the info. I went ahead and decided to buy just a desktop dac/amp from Audio Engine.

 

[Allucid]

Copies of the lightning cable are all around my country.
They cracked it.

 

[jazzman7]

So the thread re-awakens, and I see something to add to the discussion...
 
Since posting above, I bought an Apple Lightning-to-USB adapter for my iPad Mini and tried connecting my E17 to it.  No go.  "Too much power" message.  Same thing as before. 
 
From the Portable Source Gear sections, there are threads on using a powered hub to solve this problem.  I take an old, old (probably USB 1 standard) hub I got years ago from Frys that has a socket for separate power (but the adapter's long gone), and "power" it by plugging in a rechargable battery I use to charge devices via USB into one of the sockets.  Then, I connect the hub to the iPad via the Lightning dongle as the host, and connect the E17 to the hub in another of the sockets.  It works! 
 
Funny enough, I then disconnect the rechargable battery, and it still works.  The battery was unnecessary.  I discovered that I had one of those hubs that doesn't trigger the iPad's error message.  Mine is nice and thin, not like the T3Hub.  But I think there are some other choices now, too. 
 
I'm very happy with this.  I use the E17 bass boost with movies especially.    So there are workarounds to getting Apple iPads to talk digitally with outside DACs, but it is a bit hit-or-miss.

 

[salreda]

I have a fiio e7 to iPad 2 via camera connection kit
It works great!

I told the fiio not to charge in the settings. This bypassed the iPad 2 DAC. The dac is now the fiio. Although the same set up wont work with a iPhone 4.