Laptop streaming vs dedicated streamer?

[ShangriLa]

I wonder how laptop streaming compares to dedicated higher-end streamer in terms of sound quality via for example Tidal. I hear a lot about computer being a poor source of music. Some DDC like these https://www.denafrips.com/ddc are supposed to clean up the source, though some DAC manufacturers say their DAC wont benefit from DDC - that's the response I received when reaching out to exaSound/Benchmark/PS audio.

I really want to compare laptop streaming vs dedicated $2k+ streamer. I even thought about buying one to try but I dont want to abuse the return policy. I wonder if anyone has done the comparison. I personally have tried Tidal (via audirvana) + Benchmark DAC3 + Benchmark AHB2 + GoldenEar Triton Reference and liked the sound a lot. And am itching to know how a good high-end stream can be. Thanks.

 

[tesarpa]

My experience with DAC3 is exactly as Benchmark writes, no difference between inputs, no difference between sources. Tried MacMini, MacBook, Raspberry Pi, Sonnet Hermes, ProJect Stream Box Ultra. In opposite to that, Schiit Yggdrasil sound different with different sources.

 

[lexx510]

I really enjoy streaming off my laptop connected to my Gumby via usb. But I've also wondered if a dedicated streamer would provide any benefit in sound quality apart from the convenience.

 

[tesarpa]

With Gumby it's worth a try. I recommend Raspberry Pi based solutions, like Pi2AES, Allo DigiOne. These are cheap and avoid USB.

 

[lexx510]

With Gumby it's worth a try. I recommend Raspberry Pi based solutions, like Pi2AES, Allo DigiOne. These are cheap and avoid USB.

I have the Unison USB on the Gumby so it's as good as it gets for the USB signal. With the Raspberry Pi, I'm more concerned about running it while it's plugged into the electrical outlet and the noise that this might introduce into the equation.

 

[tesarpa]

You need to experiment yourself with your specific setup. When I play from MacMini USB to Unison, I can hear some distortion in treble, which can someone find interesting, as it sounds more detailed and sharper. But after experimenting with other sources, I discovered it is not natural. So even Unison is not 100 % immune to the dirty source.

 

[mammal]

I was very surprised when I got Schiit Bifrost 2, that it sounded better from my laptop via USB, than using a dedicated streamer (that only had optical out). I guess, it really depends on: 1) what is the best input for your DAC; and 2) how noisy is your source. I have managed to push my Pi2AES to a level that I was able to hear its CPU adding a noise, which was then picked up by my amp and amplified when not playing music. With songs on, I could not tell a difference, but I can only guess the noise floor was raised. As others have said, experiment for yourself, get a Raspberry Pi 4 for USB, or something cheap like Pi2AES for its DDC capabilities, and feed your DAC with various inputs to compare.

 

[sajunky]

PC/Laptop is very noisy, but not always. My laptop was very noisy, but I found that reversing euro plug on the power outlet cured ground loops, it found a different way thorugh the power supply wires. Then a power supply died, a replacement have a plug with earth, problem came back. No, there was no a background noise (it happens more frequently with analog source), but USB transfer was breaking. My solution was to give an aditional earth to the laptop. There is no one solution to ground loops. DDC usually helps in such case. The best case is when a DDC has a regenerative power supply like DI-20HE, it gives an extra level of protection, but it cost $1k. A self-powered USB 2.0 hub (but not 3.x) is able to redirect ground loops to its own PSU lines, will regenerate packets with a built in clock and cost not much.

Network streamer is useful when your laptop or other source is remote, but it is not a replacement for DDC. A reason is that a built-in WiFi generate a noise inside, it is better to disable internal transmitters, but what next? Ethernet cable? It collect ground loops from all devices connected to the same network switch. As usual there are solutions, the easiest way to reduce ground loops is to use a dedicated switch for HiFi (no other devices plugged in).

An advantage of the laptop is that USB transfer type can be verified. There are tools that will give you answer whether USB is working in the best possible mode. With streamer it is not possible. You want a transfer to be asynchronous type where packets of data are synchronised with the internal clock of DAC or DDC. It gives a lowest jitter possible, equal to the internal oscilators. Unfortunately not all DDC's take advantage of it, by example Denafrips DDC will reclock even not required.

 

[mammal]

Ethernet cable? It collect ground loops from all devices connected to the same network switch.

SFP wouldn't right? As that is optical. But then you need a separate switch that translates fiber SFP back to RJ45.

 

[sajunky]

SFP wouldn't right? As that is optical. But then you need a separate switch that translates fiber SFP back to RJ45.

Well, I initially thought the same, but those who tried it said it was not good. A reason is that laser pulses pollute ground power supply. Better is to use a small WiFi extender (in network adapter mode) on the short cable. Powered by a small LPS for purity.

 

[Gaspar74]

I’ve had good results with both a streamer such as Bluesound Node2i via WiFi as well as a RPI4 w Allo boss dac with the RPI SEPERATELY powered and a Linear supply
For the Boss.

 

[Nicholasheadfi2]

I recently purchased a ddc from denafrips which made a big difference to my system,
i thought i would try a streamer to see how it will compare against the ddc and to
my ears streaming sounds so much better streamer to dac , dac to amp combo.
my question is has buying a streamer made my ddc redundant? can the ddc be added to
the chain somehow .
cheers guys .

 

[GrandNagus50]

Ok, now I don't have to start a separate thread about this topic

I have blithely used my Dell XPS 15 and now 17 as a streaming source for several years now. I connected via USB to a iFi micro black label DAC/amp and then into various IEMs and headphones. I thought the audio quality was good, except for when I listened with Focal Utopia headphones. These sounded peaky and a bit tinny, and I shrugged this off as the relatively new headphones needing "burn in."

Well, the other day I tried using my iPhone as a streaming source with the iFi for the Utopias, and I was surprised at how much better the sound quality was. This makes me wonder if there is something funky with the way I am using the laptop as a streaming source. I had thought that plugging in via USB gives you digital output that was pretty much the same as any other digital output.

My thought is that I am willing to accept that theoretically, pure digital output from a computer is fine, but there is something wrong with the way my laptop is configured. Either that or my Dell laptop is just crap in some way related to how it sends out digital audio.

So this gets me thinking that it would be "better" to just get a digital streaming source that I know is now problematic, something more convenient to use in a tabletop setup than my iphone.

Doug Greenberg

 

[Nicholasheadfi2]

Ok, now I don't have to start a separate thread about this topic

I have blithely used my Dell XPS 15 and now 17 as a streaming source for several years now. I connected via USB to a iFi micro black label DAC/amp and then into various IEMs and headphones. I thought the audio quality was good, except for when I listened with Focal Utopia headphones. These sounded peaky and a bit tinny, and I shrugged this off as the relatively new headphones needing "burn in."

Well, the other day I tried using my iPhone as a streaming source with the iFi for the Utopias, and I was surprised at how much better the sound quality was. This makes me wonder if there is something funky with the way I am using the laptop as a streaming source. I had thought that plugging in via USB gives you digital output that was pretty much the same as any other digital output.

My thought is that I am willing to accept that theoretically, pure digital output from a computer is fine, but there is something wrong with the way my laptop is configured. Either that or my Dell laptop is just crap in some way related to how it sends out digital audio.

So this gets me thinking that it would be "better" to just get a digital streaming source that I know is now problematic, something more convenient to use in a tabletop setup than my iphone.

Doug Greenberg

Hello Doug
Sorry for the late reply , I was using a laptop for years in my set up gone through countless amounts of high end end gear not paying so much attention to my source thinking it wouldn't make that much difference and didn't really delve into streamers until recently, I recently purchased the wiim pro streamer and yes it does make a he'll of a difference in my system it's so much quiter lower noise floor more defined images and everything else you would expect .
All these years I've been missing out the wiim pro is a good budget starting point which beats out my macbook air by a longshot
I was so happy with the results I purchased the eversolo dmp a6 which is even better than the wiim pro in my opinion .
So now I have the eversolo into my denafrips ddc then into my dac then I to my amp and its amazing .
So the answer is yes ditch the computer it's not doing you any favours at all .

 

[Hatmann]

Thanks for this response.

i‘ve been using my laptop and just bought an amp (Jotunheim 2) and and DAC that I like (Bifrost 2.)

Are there good streamers that wouldn’t force me to give up my DAC?