[tom hankins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've said it before and I'll say it again all you need is a good RCM!

But what about that one tiny particle of dust that is going to throw off the sound of the entire album and ruin your vinyl for ever?

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif all it takes is one dust particle to wedge inside a track before a needle hits it. then that 'bit' is now toast. lp playing is like russian roulette you never know when you WILL create an unfixable audio error simply due to friction, alone. can anyone here show me a noise floor even CLOSE to what a cd has? I can get 90db or better from a cd. can you even get 60 or 70 from an lp? doubtful. I hate noise. I'll never choose LP due to the high noise levels, alone. look at the audio capture wave form on both lp and cd. if you ever did, you'd know that the lp was inferior in every single technical way.

First off yes vinyl is going to be inherently noisier than cds and if the sole criteria for choosing a source was the noise floor then cd/digital would win. However more important, for me at least, is the source material quality. For many/most Jazz, Blues and Rock recordings LPs win and by a wide margin. Mastering on most recordings, jazz being the least offensive, are by and large inferior to the LP counterparts.

What good is a dynamic range of 90db or 60db for that matter when most recordings have a dynamic range vastly lower than that. First sitting in a quite room the ambient noise can run from 40db so lets say your CDs had 90db of usable range you'd start at a volume above your rooms level say 70db then your peak would be at 160db which would be louder than a jet engine taking off at 100 feet and likely blow the drivers right out of your speakers or headphones.

Most recording have no where near the limit dynamic range limit of CDs or LPs this argument is trotted out but is not applicable in the real world where most recordings are lucky to have 20db of range in them. Now if you listen to classical you could make an argument that they have a a larger dynamic range and you be mostly right.

Bring up modern recordings or remasters in a wave editor and what you'll likely see is a giant brick of loudness and compression. So while I can appreciate the desire for quiet playback mediums if you choose digital and want to listen to rock, blues and some jazz you'll likely lose dynamic range choosing a CD player over a record player.

 

[mark_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins /img/forum/go_quote.gif But what about that one tiny particle of dust that is going to throw off the sound of the entire album and ruin your vinyl for ever?

I live in a bubble, no problem with dust here!

In my bubble I have a fairly good digital front end (Benny Hill moment), nice headphones that suit my tastes, very revealing I might add, and two average turntables, I loathe surface noise but sit and happily listen to vinyl for hours. My digital system has been switched off now for two months at least, I just can't get the same buzz from a CD, even if I smoke it!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif but digital does not degrade at all if you treat it right. analog vinyl degrades on every play, even if you don't want to consider it as additive, it is. its physics. phys contact is a wearing process. it is - not debatable (not my rules, its how the physical world works).

Agreed analogue recordings degrade every time you play them in an absolute sense, just as PCM encoding never contains anything other than an approximation of an analogue waveform.

It all depends on what level of approximation and / or convenience you can live with, but looked after carefully, in daily use on a well made turntable properly set up records last a lot longer than any other format yet devised apart from tape.

Also harddrives are magneto optical so far from being failsafe even configured in mirrored RAID and redundant in several locations. Physical media are still going to be used for archiving for some time yet, and amongst these analogue tape is actually still widely used because it's stood the test of time.

 

[The Monkey]

One of the next things I'd like to do in this hobby is to add vinyl to my rig. Assuming I already have an amp and vinyl, what would be the approximate cost to assemble the appropriate equipment for a high mid-fi rig that would be the SQ equivalent of its digital counterpart. In other words, what's the barrier to entry to compare vinyl to digital?

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also harddrives are magneto optical so far from being failsafe even configured in mirrored RAID and redundant in several locations. Physical media are still going to be used for archiving for some time yet, and amongst these analogue tape is actually still widely used because it's stood the test of time.

you just need layers in the stack to keep the whole thing honest.

(same with tcp/ip)

see: zfs. that will ensure total data integrity. (finally!)

that's the tech to have. then you get perfect bits forever

 

[mark_h]

AudioHallOfFame.com - TURNTABLES

 

[NightOwl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif One of the next things I'd like to do in this hobby is to add vinyl to my rig. Assuming I already have an amp and vinyl, what would be the approximate cost to assemble the appropriate equipment for a high mid-fi rig that would be the SQ equivalent of its digital counterpart. In other words, what's the barrier to entry to compare vinyl to digital?

The following would blow away any high mid-fi digital front end. The turntable is also upgradeable, all at once or in stages.

AudiogoN ForSale: VPI HW 19 MK 3

Cartridge, Excellent:
BRAND-NEW Audio-Technica AT33PTG MC cartridge JAPAN NIB - (eBay.ca item 120423754682 end time 20-Jun-09 05:50:24 EDT)

or Very Good:
LP Gear: audio-technica AT150MLX AT-150MLX phono cartridge Special Sale $307.95 - retail $799.00

or Good:
DENON DL-110 HIGH OUTPUT MOVING MC CARTRIDGE DL110 NEW - (eBay.ca item 110393667291 end time 29-May-09 17:11:21 EDT)

Phono stage for MM or MC:
AudiogoN ForSale: Cambridge Audio 640P

Record Cleaning Machine:
AudiogoN ForSale: VPI 16.5 Recording Cleaning

Audioquest Carbon Fiber Record Brush 800-229-0644 Audioquest Carbon Fiber Brush

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif

"is look like russian torture device, from old country!"

 

[ozz]

In all fairness you would need both a high end digital and analog to be able to extract the
sound you are looking for because not every music was available on CD and not every
CD was mastered correctly and the same goes for vinyl not every pressing was great there are good and bad examples of both. i have found that vinyl to get the sound I want
is more than I am willing to spend these days.