iPod UI of Marantz CD6003 and Denon DCD-710AE? (both ipod digital transports and DACS)

[Kabeer]

Both the Marantz CD6003 and Denon DCD-710AE are reasonbly priced and good quality CDP.

What I find v.interesting about both is that they both are able to take a usb input from an iPod (or even usb hard drive, not a PC though), and use that as a digital source.

My question is, has anyone had experience with both navigating the iPod artists etc...
How decent is the interface?
And how good is the sound in this mode? (i assume it should be the same as the CD source itself if the file is lossless).

These seem like excellent solutions for many Head-Fiers.

Thanks!

 

[Kabeer]

Im suprised no one has any thoughts?
This is an all in once digital transport/DAC/plus cd-player solution for your ipod.

A neat all in one box alternative to a Wadia dock and external DAC.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im suprised no one has any thoughts? This is an all in once digital transport/DAC/plus cd-player solution for your ipod. A neat all in one box alternative to a Wadia dock and external DAC.

No, it isnt. You will not be bypassing the iPOD DAC - I believe that this was covered in a thread here a couple of months back.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, it isnt. You will not be bypassing the iPOD DAC - I believe that this was covered in a thread here a couple of months back.

Covered here how? I cannot find it?

It does bypass the iPod DAC. The only issue I could find was whether the Marantz model was using a cheapo or the good DAC chip inside for conversion. There was a guy copy/pasting his review of the Marantz around the web stating that it used some crappy chip, part of an in car USB conversion device.
But an official reply from Marantz stated it used the good quality DAC chip inside.

But in either case both never denied it totally bypassed the iPod's own DAC chip...

 

[estreeter]

I have the CD5003 - whatever the model number on the DAC chip, its sounds absolutely fantastic to my ears. The gear queers who see anything with 'Cirrus Logic' on it as inferior are basically denying the importance of good implementation. Marantz got their act together with these CDPs - they wont give you the detail and separation of equivalent CA models, but they make up for that with a warm, musical sound that just washes over you.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the CD5003 - whatever the model number on the DAC chip, its sounds absolutely fantastic to my ears. The gear queers who see anything with 'Cirrus Logic' on it as inferior are basically denying the importance of good implementation. Marantz got their act together with these CDPs - they wont give you the detail and separation of equivalent CA models, but they make up for that with a warm, musical sound that just washes over you.

hi estreeter, you never pointed me to where it has been proven that the CD6003 does not take a real digital out?

Also the people who were saying the Marantz used a bad chip for the DAC conversion wernt talking about the Marantz main DAC chip itself.

The point of contention was: the CD6003 takes a usb input and the chip that does this usb input conversion also has the ability to act as a DAC, and it is used in car systems to do exactly that, but it is not a great chip. And the reviewer in question was claiming the CD6003 did exactly this.

But Marantz claims they use this USB chip just to take the USB data, and then it is fed to the Marantz main DAC chip (which is shared by the CD transport as well). Hence, a full digital transport solution for an iPod, utilising a high quality DAC.

So this point of contention never claims the Marantz dosent take a digital out, in fact it supports it either way. (both the Marantz and the Denon treat the iPod like a hard drive and use the iPods itunes created database to navigate through the CDP's own screen).

 

[estreeter]

Can you point me to the Marantz claims that they are taking a digital signal directly from the iPod, pls ? I was originally very excited about this but reading the fine print in my CD5003 manual convinced me that they were engaging in a little creative marketing - I'm in the middle of a house move right now, but I will dig the manual out tonight and quote the exact paragraph. Whether the CD6003 has a better means of extracting the signal from my iPod is something I also need to research further, but the discussion here was with Uncle Erik (from memory) and I will have to do more digging - now isnt an ideal time for me, unfortunately. Can only post while I sit around waiting for carpet cleaners and assorted other people - never move house ...

 

[nick_charles]

If is is taking a USB feed it ****must*** be digital and not analog, so unless the ipod takes the analog output from the DAC and then passes it through an onboard ADC then repackages the data into USB format....which would be a stupid design... you are getting digital that has avoided the DAC !

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you point me to the Marantz claims that they are taking a digital signal directly from the iPod, pls ? I was originally very excited about this but reading the fine print in my CD5003 manual convinced me that they were engaging in a little creative marketing - I'm in the middle of a house move right now, but I will dig the manual out tonight and quote the exact paragraph. Whether the CD6003 has a better means of extracting the signal from my iPod is something I also need to research further, but the discussion here was with Uncle Erik (from memory) and I will have to do more digging - now isnt an ideal time for me, unfortunately. Can only post while I sit around waiting for carpet cleaners and assorted other people - never move house ...

I'll look for it and post a bit later.
PS: the CD5003 doesnt have the same iPod capability as CD-6003 as far as I have seen...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif If is is taking a USB feed it ****must*** be digital and not analog, so unless the ipod takes the analog output from the DAC and then passes it through an onboard ADC then repackages the data into USB format....which would be a stupid design... you are getting digital that has avoided the DAC !

Yup, exactly. It also supports usb hard drives/pens plugged directly into it, just reads the files off it.
The ipod isnt doing that, the Marantz/Denon read the actual USB data files off the iPods. You arent playing files from the iPod. The iPod UI is totally swithced off during the process.

 

[estreeter]

Hey, if the CD6003 and its Denon equivalent are bypassing the iPod DAC, why are we sitting around here arguing about it when we should be handing over our credit card details ? The Wadia and Onkyo transports are clearly a waste of money.

 

[Kabeer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, if the CD6003 and its Denon equivalent are bypassing the iPod DAC, why are we sitting around here arguing about it when we should be handing over our credit card details ? The Wadia and Onkyo transports are clearly a waste of money.

I wasnt arguing about it, I was asking about the UI

. You were the one who said it wasnt digital, but i coudlnt find any such details claiming such.

(also im having trouble finding the forum where i found a discussion of which DAC chip the usb input uses agian... ill keep looking).

The Onkyo and Wadia still have their place if you want to use a different DAC. Or you want to use the iPods own UI rather than the Marantz/Denons own one.
(the only reason Im not jumping to buy one , is I had already ordered a Onkyo by the time I found out about the marantz. and on top of that I dunno about the UI ease of use yet, hence posting this thread

).

So...I dont get why these arent insanely popular on head-fi....

 

[estreeter]

I'd rather use the remote on my Marantz CDP than the iPod controls, personally, but I concede that many would not be so happy. Still not sure why Marantz would employ a second DAC for processing the USB output of the iPod.

The discussion I recall mentioned that Apple actually made the USB signal accessible several years ago, but that was only one part of the puzzle. I believe that quite a few CDPs and amps now allow you to plug your iPods USB cable into the player/amp (Sony have something similar for the X series), but I didnt think this was the same thing as the technology employed by Wadia and Onkyo. The house move thing is frustrating, but I will track down that older info when I get the chance.

 

[Kabeer]

Found it, the discussion was based on the CD8003 (which was the model the CD6003 was based on):
Questions about my Marantz SA8003 CD/SACD player [Archive] - SH Forums
Quote:

04-20-2009, 10:16 AM I just received a nice detailed response from Clarke Robinson, the reviewer from enjoythemusic.com: 2. The information about the USB input bypassing the unit's digital section I obtained by taking the unit apart and investigating the circuit myself. The UPD63901 is on a small board near the front panel of the unit (and it has a crystal oscillator on it, which it wouldn't need if it weren't doing D/A conversion). There is a single ribbon cable out of the USB board that leads directly to the unit's analog section. That's why you can't output USB to the digital outputs...the USB signal never touches the SA8003's digital circuitry. and then this from Marantz: Customer (James Hamilton) - 04/16/2009 10:09 AM when using an iPod with the SA8003 are the files decoded by the Cirrus CS4398 DAC or by the NEC uPD63901 microcontroller? Response (Ean Levy) - 04/20/2009 11:38 AM It is decoded by the Cirrus CS4398 DAC.

 

[Kabeer]

Also it seems it is only worth it past a certain iPod generation:
Quote:

Here is an answer from Marantz: Discussion Thread --------------------------------------------------------------- Response (Ean Levy) - 04/20/2009 01:08 PM If a 5th generation or later iPod, iPod nano, iPod classic or iPod touch is connected, it can be played with even higher sound quality because the audio from the iPod is transmitted digitally (LPCM). LPCM from iPOD is decoded by main processor. Earlier iPOD audio is transmitted analog and passed through the main processor.

 

[estreeter]

Awesome detective work, kabeer. Not sure what to make of some of that, but more in-depth technical investigation is definitely warranted before one rushes out to buy one of the newer CDPs purely on the basis of their support for 'USB digital input' from the iPod.