Interconnects, just how insane need one be?

[Covenant]

Assuming one had a very high-end system, just how important are interconnects in maintaining that all-too-important signal path? How much difference is there between the $10 generic rubber cables and something like the VH Audio Cryo-treated silver-and-copper hybrid monstrosities?

And most importantly, what's a good midpoint between cost effectiveness and obsessive quality?

 

[Aman]

They are probably the things that make the least difference. Some cables make detail better and refine imagery, and some tighten up the sound and make it more accurate.

My interconnects, for example, opened up the soundstage a lot, especially on speakers. The cardas interconnects are known for better imagery and accuracy.

How much difference will they make? Let's just say that you will notice the differences with a Sennheiser HD650 on a high end source with a nice amp. You will not notice it with PortaPro's and a small pocket amp on a portable player.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman How much difference will they make? Let's just say that you will notice the differences with a Sennheiser HD650 on a high end source with a nice amp. You will not notice it with PortaPro's and a small pocket amp on a portable player.

But on that high-end system, the differences are noticable? That's good to know.

...now, to figure out what sort of interconnects i'm gonna be needing

 

[riffer]

I think that shooting for a good quality cable with solid terminations is the best strategy. Look at the DH Labs BL-1 Series 2 as an example.

I upgraded my interconnects this year to Cardas Golden & Neutral Reference, and I would also recommend the Cardas, but I wouldn't be upset if I had to put the BL-1's back in.

 

[braillediver]

There’s a synergy with components that should be attempted, a sense of balance, each component complimenting the other.

Cable shouldn’t be used to cure fundamental defects in a system but should be used to enhance and compliment the system.

Price is often used to establish a balance with about 20% to 30% going to cables.

A great cable won’t improve a mediocre system since the content just isn’t there but a mediocre cable can hinder a good system from reaching its full potential.

If possible do some research and buy used from reputable people here and on the other audio sites. If you get a good deal on the used cables you shouldn’t lose too much if you change your mind. It’s like trying different foods, different beers etc. it takes time to find what is right for you and the sampling can be fun.

They’re your ears and it’s your system so no one can tell you what is “best” only you can decide and the proof is in actually listening to the music.


Mitch

 

[jefemeister]

I like to limit cable expenditure to 10% of system of budget. 30% would be crazy.

Cable differences are more easily discerned on higher-end systems since they have more resolution to uncover the subtelties of a cable. But, in my opinion, cables can not make a system sound better; they in fact make it sound "less worse."

 

[eric343]

Just how much you spend on cables is really a matter of personal preference. Some people like to buy high-end cables early on to get that part of the upgrade path out of the way, whereas others see cables as "tweaks" to be done once everything else is where they want it.

There are also people who buy $1500 power cords before they even have an amp to use with them... though that may be more for the bragging rights a pricey cable brings than anything else. (Non-audiophiles' jaws tend to drop when they hear how much my cables cost.)

 

[Carbonman]

Cable cost bears virtually no relationship to performance. I made some cheap Belden 89259 interconnects (cable $2/foot, Eichman Bullet plugs $50/set of 4) and they sound almost as good as the Harmonic Technology Truth-Link interconnects I have at about $250/pair.
Swapping interconnects between my CD player (CAL CL-10) and preamp made no real difference. Between my pre-and power amp the differences are huge. The source signal is big, but the output from the preamp is attenuated. Prehaps the really small signals are where the care in selection needs to be taken.
Of course, YMMV.

 

[braillediver]

“Non-audiophiles' jaws tend to drop when they hear how much my cables cost.”

I for one have no need to mention the cost of the cables I use. Irrelevant. Some people pay thousands for fancy rims on their cars. So what- at the end of the day I got to work and home using the factory rims that came with my automobile.

Personal preference and personal sense of value is what counts. Satisfaction comes from inside not what others think of you or your toys.


Mitch

 

[Covenant]

Good advice from one and all

Methinks i'll likely go for the Cardas Neutral References. Their philosophy seems to be in the right place - make as neutral a cable as possible, and let colouration happen at the source/amp/headphones.

Of course, looking at the differences in oppinion between threads like:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9240
and
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83326

it seems that while good, these aren't as astronomincally "great" as they could be. But for $1,600 a metre for the Audio Metallurgy's, i can live with merely good, for now

 

[eric343]

Mitch,
Showing off an expensive rig much like you'd show off a Jaguar or Ferrari (the percentage of people who pay more than $100 for cables is probably even more exclusive than the number of people who buy high-end cars) is simply human.

I think in general, though, you may be missing out. The questions that follow any mention of high-end audio are a great way to introduce people (that are often used to thinking of Bose as the best there is) to our world and indeed products that offer far better performance for the money than their more heavily-marketed counterparts.

Besides, one of the great joys of audio is that nearly anyone can appreciate it. Considering what many are used to, showing people a decent rig can be a mind-blowing experience. Case in point -- a former math teacher of mine whose experience of classical music was limited to what he heard on cheap stereos and on the radio coming to work. Judging by his reaction when he heard my system, the whole concepts of instrument separation and quality soundstage, treble, midrange, bass, and detail were completely alien to him.

And if that isn't enough for you, didn't someone mention using his high-end stereo system to pick up girls?

 

[dj_mocok]

I can't afford Jaguar or Ferraris... That's why I bought $100 cable.

 

[Welly Wu]

I got a thread in this sub-forum on the matter that addresses some of the questions that you're asking about. I also have the Cardas Golden Reference Power cord and Neutral Reference Interconnects. I agree with Mr. George Cardas' philosophy in terms of cable design as well.

Sometime next week I should be receiving my new Blue Jeans Cable stereo analog unbalanced RCA cables using Belden 1505F cable and Canare RCAP connectors. As I have said before on this matter, it really does not make much of a difference at all except when one has indeed created a high end and high resolution reference system first and foremost and the differences invariably gravitate toward prestige and preferences. I find it curious that people use hyperbole to describe the differences between cables when the science does not merit such language. However, I am open minded on the issue. My experience is that cables -- speaker, interconnects, power, and speciality ones -- make little or no difference in terms of sonic improvements (or detriments) unless the reference system is already at hand. Truly, in my humble opinion, these tweaks represent not just the last 2 - 3 percent but the last 0.75 percent. On the other hand, one can not dispute that human beings are drawn to prestige factor and have their own proclivities for all manner of things and high fidelity audio is no exception whatsoever.

System synergy through cables is indeed possible if it meets personal preferences, but I dispute the magnitude with which language is constructed to reconstruct the high fidelity sonic experience through the usage of very esoteric and expensive cables. It is entirely possible to achieve a musically satisfying reference system without resorting to the usage of very very expensive cables by simply prioritizing quality materials and construction over name brand and snake oil claims that are paraded through advertising literature.

I know this is a controversial issue and that I am not making it go away with my reply post, but the truth must be told and repeatedly if it is to be accepted. I will update my thread on the comparisons between my Cardas cables and my new Blue Jeans Cables next week when time permits. Lastly, I don't believe that cable burn in is a real scientific process and that a cable should sound just about the same whether it has just been plugged into a component or not used for a year. Conversly, I must qualify that statement by saying that you can easily become accustomed to a particular reference sound -- your very own absolute sound as it were -- and that switching components will indeed motivate you to perceive differences in the sound. That is indisputate and a human phenomenon.

 

[Oliver :)]

I think cables are essential and always worth to be considered. Talking about RCA, I found the sweetspot for my current rig at about €100. I have a cable that was several times that price, but on this current rig I was yet unable to make out the difference. Those are both custom made small run products by the way. You will always have to find out on your own though, even if your elextronics are $500, a $50 cable might make for a significant difference. Or not. Regarding your initial question: In my opinion, a *high end*, or even "mid fi" rig with cheap cables is simply offensive

since the whole thing becomes pathetic.

 

[spinali]

I concur with some of the above. If you have a relatively modest source, the differences in sound are likely to be rather slight.

With an iPod/portable CD player and DT-880 pairing, I've found that I get more bang out of my buck with a versatile headphone amp that has treble and bass controls (like the 3HA). I imagine that more sensitive source would afford more subtlety.