How would you handle this Head-fi buying situation?

[RojasTKD]

You buy a pair of planar headphone from the buy sell section of head-fi. Pictures included the headphones and a single ended cable and balanced cable.

Once you receive the headphone the right driver isn't working and the balanced cable though working as a section that looks like this (non of the sellers pictures showed this).

The cables work fine otherwise, but feel this should of been shown. Seller says headphones work properly before shipping. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I assume they where working and where damaged somewhere between shipping and arrival. These where dent from Canada to the US and it's possible customs may have opened the package.

Who do you proceed? What is fair?

After a couple of e-mail I just asked to return headphones for a refund. Do you think that's a fair request? What would you do?

 

[Whitigir]

I would just contact for a refund, and if you paid PayPal, check the items was not as described box if you bring it to PayPal attentions.

I am afraid beside you, your seller, and PayPal, no one reall can step in under this situations. You just have to ask questions, and check feedbacks from the seller before you proceed. Always use PayPal for a safe trade, unless you are good friend and well known

 

[RojasTKD]

I would just contact for a refund, and if you paid PayPal, check the items was not as described box if you bring it to PayPal attentions.

I am afraid beside you, your seller, and PayPal, no one reall can step in under this situations. You just have to ask questions, and check feedbacks from the seller before you proceed. Always use PayPal for a safe trade, unless you are good friend and well known

I contacted the seller immediately. First told him of the issues and my unhappiness. Did not mention a refund to see what they would say, and to see if perhaps there was a solution or something I was missing.

I asked for a refund earlier today and not sure what the seller will say. Also contacted PayPal about my options in this situation. So if seller declines I will proceed with PayPal.

I'm a very fair person and try to accommodate others if possible. Just want to make sure I'm being fair. I'd assume most people would also ask for a refund and I'm not being unfair.

Seller might think. "hey, they where working fine when I sent them. It's your problem now". Had they work out of the box and failed 3 weeks later, I could understand that. But as I stands I don't feel that way.

Again, just making sure I'm being reasonable.

 

[Whitigir]

You are kind more than many of the internet folks and online transactions. I mean it was so “cruel” to list something as working perfectly, and then turned out to not be working correctly without any mentioning about it.

In this hobby: we the buyer expect

1/ quick shipping, we can not wait to have eargasm

2/ every % count, so if you as the seller, know well enough that something is wrong with your gears....***...just list it out.....for example channel imbalanced. Yes, every thing count!

3/ especially on expensive items, we care about how well it was taken care of. So do mind to list it as well.

I am not sure how the seller done other steps with you, but I would be so furious that the seller did not disclose the “something not working rights”. I would even leave negative feedbacks to warn others to stay away

 

[Mython]

I see the seller has been a Head-Fi member for 12 yrs and has 3 positive seller (& 5 positive buyer) feedbacks, so I can see that you didn't have a good reason to distrust them, when you decided to buy.

That's fair enough.




...the cable... well, insulation sheaths do sometimes stretch a little bit away from the soldered connection, over time, especially if the cable is quite heavy. That I could forgive (although it should have been mentioned in the classified).

What isn't acceptable is the faulty driver. Even though you can't prove if it happened during transit, or if the seller already knew about it, I believe you are justified in requesting a refund, and hopefully, you can pursue this through Paypal if the seller refuses (if you use Paypal, you should never pay using the 'Gift' option, because Paypal won't help you get a refund if something goes wrong).

Most Head-Fiers care about having good feedback, so perhaps that will help motivate them to accept a refund.

It also highlights the fact that it can often be worth paying more to the courier company for insurance...


I wish you good luck, and please let us know what eventually happens.

 

[Whitigir]

Yeah, agree with @Mython . Best of luck to you

 

[RojasTKD]

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to feel I'm not doing anything wrong or unfair in the situation.

To be clear I AM NOT accusing the seller of knowingly sending me a headphone with a broken driver. He says it was working before sending, and I have to take him at his word. If it was damaged during shipping that no fault on either of us, and that's what makes this more difficult.

I'm not upset about the conditions of the cable as much as it was not shown in any of the pictures. It's not encouraging that it was not disclosed. I would of made sure to specifically mention it and include picture so potential buyers would know what their getting. Had the Headphones worked, I would of not liked that it wasn't shown/disclosed but would not of bothered with it.

 

[zazex]

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to feel I'm not doing anything wrong or unfair in the situation.

To be clear I AM NOT accusing the seller of knowingly sending me a headphone with a broken driver. He says it was working before sending, and I have to take him at his word. If it was damaged during shipping that no fault on either of us, and that's what makes this more difficult.

I'm not upset about the conditions of the cable as much as it was not shown in any of the pictures. It's not encouraging that it was not disclosed. I would of made sure to specifically mention it and include picture so potential buyers would know what their getting. Had the Headphones worked, I would of not liked that it wasn't shown/disclosed but would not of bothered with it.

If the seller is not known to you -
if he said it was working, and it arrives not working
you do not have to take him at his word. It is an unfortunate
fact throudh the ages that many sellers misrepresent what they
are selling.

In this regard, there is an ancient caveat : "Let the Buyer Beware."
Long ago, buyers had very few remedies if they received defective
or "non-conforming" goods.
It was reflected in an oft-stated rule: Let the buyer beware."
This has changed quite dramatically over the years (except
regarding many if not most real estate transactions), and today
buyers have many remedies.

I would contact the seller, as others have suggested - send
a clear email. preferably through two routes, simply stating
the facts as you see them. Request a prompt refund, and
request advice on how he would like you to proceed (how
to return the item, maybe he'll let you keep the item [however
unlikely}, who will pay return shipping [I would not get into
any kind of big issue over that - it's only a few dollars& be sure
to get a rct and Tracking Number]. Also put inside the package
a copy of the email you sent. If you ship online, you can often
make a personal note (where the other person can't see it)
mentioning the contents for the shipment and the reason for
it. Can even reference the email you sent.

Contact PayPal within a few days; no longer. They have
rules about these types of issues. I would then contact
PayPal by phone a few days later, speak with a representative,
and confirm that your communication has been received, is in
proper order, and what you may expect from going forward.
Write, of course, the number of your "case" or whatever
PayPal calls it, the ID number/and or some type of
employee identifier in case you need to follow up with
them.

Be sure to read this (one page) list of PayPal's
rules as to what is, and what is not covered >
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

I would definitely stay away from making any type of
threat, or what even could be seen as one. It's
unnecessary and can expose you to all kinds of
unpleasantness. Just generally not a good approach.

You can sue in small claims court. You might
have to sue in the other party's state (assuming
he's in the USA - if not, I probably wouldn't bother
with this.)

As I understand it, Head-Fi specifically disclaims
any involvement with these types of matters.
But you might understand differently.
https://www.head-fi.org/forums/headphones-for-sale-trade.6550/
https://www.head-fi.org/articles/buy-sell-trade-rules.13274/

Finally, I want to note that while I have sold items online,
including here on head-fi, I have fortunately had only a
vanishingly small number of issues, and have never run
into a situation which wasn't able to be worked out.

I do have some other ideas on this, but feel this post is
already too long - so feel free, if you wish, to contact
me.

Cheers,

 

[RojasTKD]

If the seller is not known to you -
if he said it was working, and it arrives not working
you do not have to take him at his word. It is an unfortunate
fact throudh the ages that many sellers misrepresent what they
are selling.

In this regard, there is an ancient caveat : "Let the Buyer Beware."
Long ago, buyers had very few remedies if they received defective
or "non-conforming" goods.
It was reflected in an oft-stated rule: Let the buyer beware."
This has changed quite dramatically over the years (except
regarding many if not most real estate transactions), and today
buyers have many remedies.

I would contact the seller, as others have suggested - send
a clear email. preferably through two routes, simply stating
the facts as you see them. Request a prompt refund, and
request advice on how he would like you to proceed (how
to return the item, maybe he'll let you keep the item [however
unlikely}, who will pay return shipping [I would not get into
any kind of big issue over that - it's only a few dollars& be sure
to get a rct and Tracking Number]. Also put inside the package
a copy of the email you sent. If you ship online, you can often
make a personal note (where the other person can't see it)
mentioning the contents for the shipment and the reason for
it. Can even reference the email you sent.

Contact PayPal within a few days; no longer. They have
rules about these types of issues. I would then contact
PayPal by phone a few days later, speak with a representative,
and confirm that your communication has been received, is in
proper order, and what you may expect from going forward.
Write, of course, the number of your "case" or whatever
PayPal calls it, the ID number/and or some type of
employee identifier in case you need to follow up with
them.

Be sure to read this (one page) list of PayPal's
rules as to what is, and what is not covered >
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

I would definitely stay away from making any type of
threat, or what even could be seen as one. It's
unnecessary and can expose you to all kinds of
unpleasantness. Just generally not a good approach.

You can sue in small claims court. You might
have to sue in the other party's state (assuming
he's in the USA - if not, I probably wouldn't bother
with this.)

As I understand it, Head-Fi specifically disclaims
any involvement with these types of matters.
But you might understand differently.
https://www.head-fi.org/forums/headphones-for-sale-trade.6550/
https://www.head-fi.org/articles/buy-sell-trade-rules.13274/

Finally, I want to note that while I have sold items online,
including here on head-fi, I have fortunately had only a
vanishingly small number of issues, and have never run
into a situation which wasn't able to be worked out.

I do have some other ideas on this, but feel this post is
already too long - so feel free, if you wish, to contact
me.

Cheers,

Already contacted the seller as soon as I got the product. Spoke with Paypal today, as I was on hold and they where about to close at 6pm.

I would never make threats. If seller doesn't want to work it out, I'll just tell him I will work it out with Paypal.

I'll gladly pay for shipping, I have no problem with that.

 

[RojasTKD]

It's in paypal's hands now.

 

[zazex]

It's in paypal's hands now.

To a large extent.
PayPal is a well run company IMO (and in the view of many others).
But, of course, they aren't perfect.

So I suggest (perhaps "urge" is the better word) that you stay on top of the situation.
Ultimately, it is your situation.
You can phone them from time to time. Be friendly but gently insistent.
Send an email if you haven't phoned in a while. Try to establish a decent
working relationship with someone there. IME it's important to be friendly
and gently persistent. I feel I needn't mention this, but will do out of caution -
whatever you do, avoid being seen as a pest or PITA - at all costs.
Does not accomplish anything at all helpful or positive in your favor.

In fewer workds, I'm just saying to "manage" this matter you've got going
with PayPal and the other party.

 

[franz12]

share his name so that we can avoid him.

 

[RojasTKD]

share his name so that we can avoid him.

Lets remember there are two side to every coin.

From his perspective he sent a fully functional headphone and the cable may show wear and tare but are fully functional and secondary.

From my perspective the the headphones arrived to me not fully functional and the condition of the cables though not a big deal should of been disclosed and pictured.

He's been cordial in this situation, though I find some of his response a bit odd and neither hear nor there with regards to the topic.

I try to be objective in all things and see other's perspectives, so not ready to label him a bad guy or deliberate scammer.

 

[sebna]

I do most of my shopping online of which significant part would be forums sales. I am sure we all do.

I think it is quite simple. If goods are delivered damaged I do not really care whose fault it is. In the end it is not mine as a buyer. There are only two options. Either sender sent damaged goods on purpose or he did not pack them adequately. In either case it is his fault. End of story.

I also sell and send many items and I apply same rules to myself as seller. Because this is the bottom line.

Paypal will go in your favour and the seller will learn from this experience. In the end it is a win-win situation (however the seller may not see it this way). Other then unnecessary stress for you.

Good luck

 

[RojasTKD]

I do most of my shopping online of which significant part would be forums sales. I am sure we all do.

I think it is quite simple. If goods are delivered damaged I do not really care whose fault it is. In the end it is not mine as a buyer. There are only two options. Either sender sent damaged goods on purpose or he did not pack them adequately. In either case it is his fault. End of story.

I also sell and send many items and I apply same rules to myself as seller. Because this is the bottom line.

Paypal will go in your favour and the seller will learn from this experience. In the end it is a win-win situation (however the seller may not see it this way). Other then unnecessary stress for you.

Good luck

I generally agree. Though it can be more than just:
1. Intentionally sent broken
or
2. improperly packed.

It could of been handled very roughly during transit or Customs could of opened the item and mishandled (dropped or something).

But, yes... As a buy or seller if item arrives non functional it the responsibility. If damaged in transit seller should seek to have had it insured and take it up with the shipper.