[ServinginEcuador]

Agreed Tomcat. My point was to reduce the ambiguity of listening tests by avoiding things like musicality, emotional response, and other REALLY ambiguous terms that mean different things to different people. When listening to a set of drums, one can easily tell if one set doesn't get the impact of the right, drops them off totally, or slurs the sounds they make. Sibalance of vocals is another factor that is not subjective. Decay and attack are others that can be timed using a watch to see how long they each last on A versus B cables. Etc, etc, etc. ad nauseum. You can reduce the subjectivity by quite a bit, but I never intended to say it can be eliminated. By using stricter criteria by which we evaluate we can make sure that we do all we can to REDUCE the subjectivity by quite a degree.

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Agreed Tomcat.

I'm afraid we don't really agree, Doug.

"My point was to reduce the ambiguity of listening tests by avoiding things like musicality, emotional response, and other REALLY ambiguous terms that mean different things to different people."

My point is that the subjective element of listening tests is unavoidable and cannot be lessened.


"When listening to a set of drums, one can easily tell if one set doesn't get the impact of the right, drops them off totally, or slurs the sounds they make. Sibalance of vocals is another factor that is not subjective."

One can easily tell? No, Doug, this involves as much subjective judgement as anything else. And sibilance: how do you know that the recording isn't sibilant itself. To some, sibilance means detail, to some, sibilance means distortion.


"Decay and attack are others that can be timed using a watch to see how long they each last on A versus B cables.

And now you're trying to measure things? Doug, do you believe we can agree where the attack part of a natural tone starts and where it ends? Or what is to be defined as decay? The longer decay you treasure could be simply ringing or resonance to someone else's ears.


"Etc, etc, etc. ad nauseum."

I am afraid that's what your method leads to, yes.

Doug, what it comes down to is this: do you want a high degree of objectivity in your evaluation because you feel that you need the approval of your peers, of other Head-Fiers or of the audiophile community? Or do you want a musically satisfying and emotionally rewarding reproduction of the music you like?

If you regard this as some kind of illicit pleasure not to be had while evaluating components, you virtually guarantee one thing and one thing only: that you will not choose those components that are the most musical and the most emotional TO YOUR EARS. You will actively prevent yourself from having fun with your system and with the music it reproduces.

Doug, I guess we all ought to ask ourselves: what am I in this hobby for?

 

[Tomcat]

Double post, sorry.

 

[AnsBjork]

Tomcat, I find your comment very pertinent. Is'nt the ultimate goal to please our ears? I would even go to the length to say that the *dreaded* placebo effect is desirable if it makes you enjoy your music more...

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Tomcat,

Than I guess we agree to disagree. The greatest subjective thing is that one set of cables may work great in my system, but outright suck in another. I disagree that subjective elements of listening can't be reduced, and I don't mind that you don't. You are allowed your opinion, and so am I.

To clear up one misunderstanding, I mentioned not using ambiguous terms in reviews since they are just that, ambiguous. But, when it comes to things like how musical or emotional something it, that's part of the criteria I use for selecting something for use in my system without writing a review on it to post for all to see. Ambiguous terms in reviews lead or mislead one to make wrong conclusions, but are perfectly acceptable for selecting cables for my own system.

I am in this hooby to get the most enjoyable experience possible from the single system I own. That means trying various things like ICs and power cables to find that right combo that works well in my system. I will use any and all criteria to get the emotion, details, soundstage, imaging, etc. that I am looking for.

 

[PinkFloyd]

A "difference" for sure but an "improvement" not at all convinced. Of course, it all depends on what each individual listener classes as a difference or an improvement.

A lot of variables to contend with here, no two ears hear the same things so if it works for your ears then it's worth buying.

Saying that one cable is better than an other is an individual opinion as hearing is the same as fingerprints our ears are all unique listening devices that fortunately cannot be standardised by the marketing men...... likewise, the designers cannot standardise a design that will work for every unique pair of ears on the planet.

As always, it's a case of "if it sounds good it is good" forget what others think. Suck it and see.

Pinkie.