[Skyr795]

Whenever a product is discussed in this site, it's bound to bring with it descriptions of it's sound signature and whether or not the commenter cares for it. Given the way they are described and how passionately some feel about their preferred sound signature, one would think that anyone would notice an immediate difference in sound between headphones. However, this is not the case (for me at least). Between headphones, I can barely notice a difference in sound quality, let alone sound signature. And contrary to what I have read, there has been no sound signature that I have fallen in love with or hated. How exactly do you notice these differences, and when you describe a sound signature, what is it being compared to? For example, if you said that a headphone sounded bright or forward or the like, what is it bright or forward in comparison to?

 

[Rossinator]

Well as far as what it is being compared to, for you personally, I would think it can only be compared to what you have previously heard. I think it's pretty easy to immediately notice differences between headphones. But to notice all of the differences between two or more headphones, you must listen to each headphone extensively and pay attention. If you can't tell any difference between two or more headphones, it could be that they are all very similar and what little differences they have can only be discovered with extensive listening.
 
I don't think I used to be able to notice the difference between different headphone, but I really wasn't paying any attention to the headphone sound signature/sound quality--I was paying attention to the music. But ever since I bought my 280s I have paid more and more attention to how headphones sound, comparing them, etc, and have gotten better in noticing differences.

 

[kingtz]

When I am comparing two different headphones, I have to be intimately familiar with at least one of them. I am not sure that my ears are experienced enough so that I can just pick up two random headphones and be able to characterize them on the spot.
 
I think you also have to make sure that your source and music is not bottlenecking the sound from your headphones. Say, if you're playing 128kbs mp3s out the headphone port of a netbook, then yeah, it will really confound your characterizations.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I think you also have to make sure that your source and music is not bottlenecking the sound from your headphones. Say, if you're playing 128kbs mp3s out the headphone port of a netbook, then yeah, it will really confound your characterizations.

^  This.

 

[LFF]

The music and source must be as high quality as possible. Moreover, it helps to have a sampling of the different sound signatures out there as well as what actual live music (aka actual acoustic sound without amplification) sounds like. For me, live natural sound is the basis for my comparisons. I know what a guitar sounds like. I know what a piano sounds like. I know what an alto sax sounds like. This will all sound relatively the same here as in India, Canada or Europe. Sure it will change a little depending on who plays it or the humidity or altitude but overall it will sound extremely similar.
 
How do you know Coke is different from Diet Coke? How is Domino's Pizza different from Pizza Hut or Papa John's??
 
It's the same with sound signatures.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

The music and source must be as high quality as possible

 

[size=medium]

I don't think the source equipment plays an important role at all, because I've compared headphones from weak (and what you would consider crap) sources successfully.
 
Differences in sound signature shouldn't be hard to detect. Take two headphones, set the source to a decent volume and listen to a 'busy' track. With busy I mean that there should be a lot of things going on, like double bass drum, two guitars, bass guitar, singer plus a keyboard ...
 
For starters concentrate on the overall balance. After listening to a song switch headphones. Adjust volume to be approx. the same as with the other headphones. If the two headphones aren't related in their sound signature and to make things easier, if they're of different brands, the difference in overall balance should strike you immediately.
 
If not, try different tracks and volume levels.
 
 
To get a better feeling for changes and differences in frequency response I suggest to play around with an EQ while listening to music. Try out a v- or u-looking like curve (loudness). Enable and disable the EQ for a couple of seconds to get a feeling for the changes.
Or, for example, boost frequencies around 350 Hz. As mids stick out more the track should now sound 'muddy'.
 
This might be useful as well: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
 
 
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[jcx]

you might want to read up on perceptual psychology and psychoacoustics - no one here is very big on insisting on close level matching, establishing agreed perceptual anchors, blinding protocols, purpose designed test tones...
 
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reference_earphones.htm hints at one way to get more "objective" results from subjective testing
 
 
I believe the majority of the subjective equipment "sound" posts are more about group/social psychology, need to participate or self validate than useful guides to headphone sound signature
 
if the post doesn't mention level matching, having the compared items in hand at the same time to rapidly swap then I would apply a very heavy discount to the commentary - and totally ignore "compared to X that I heard at a meet last month..."

 

[Satellite_6]

For me the difference in sound signatures and SQ between headphones are huge. . . 

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Spend some time listening to a reasonable neutral and clear headphone and become used to and familiar with the sound.  Listen to a variety of music.  Then you'll find you'll be better able to put on a different headphone and identify what is different, what is being hyped, what is being recessed, what may be muffled or colored, etc.
 
I used the HD580 and HD600 as my primary headphones for over a decade.  That was good training for my ears and my brain.  Gives me a reference for being able to hear and identify what is different in other headphones, what is colored, what frequencies are hyped and what is recessed.

 

[jcx]

by well established frequency response variation detection thresholds no two different models of headphones are similar enough in frequency response to "sound the same" even when everything else were properly controlled
 
even serial production drivers for one headphone seldom match closely enough in sensitivity and frequency response to be indistinguishable - only a few headphone manufacturers match driver pairs by measurement
 
but perceived frequency response changes with loudness, our brain's rapid accommodation to frequency response variations, focus/suggestibility, unconscious bias are often larger effects in perceptual testing and nearly totally ignored (or vehemently denied) here in favor of the "just listen" advice so often given
 
so yes there are "large" differences in headphone's "sound" and with careful controls, test protocols subjective listening should lead to a fairly stable sorting of headphone models by their broad frequency response curves - such ranking still wouldn't equate to "quality"
 
but as humans we are not capable of closely matching volume "by ear" - and we hear small loudness differences as frequency response changes when a microphone would show no frequency response change
 
we quickly accommodate to frequency response changes to match our internal model/expectations of what we are perceiving - perceptual psychology shows how frighteningly much sensory input we ignore and how much we lose of one feature when asked to focus on another
 
so I highly advise skepticism towards absolutist statements about about "Sound Signature" - there are many confounding variables and too many here ignore them 

 

[Skyr795]

Wow quite a few informative replies already O.O Well, I don't think source and bit rate should be THAT big of a problem. My source is either my computer (probably a terrible sound card) or my iPhone 4 (which is apparently pretty good). Bit rates of my songs range anywhere from 192 kbps VBR MP3 to 320 kbps non-VBR AAC but I at least know enough to not use the 192 kbps for comparison purposes. The way you all describe it, it seems that it might be preferable for me to just get used to a neutral sound signature first by using neutral headphones but as far as I know I don't own anything like that. As far as I know, the HD 25-1 II, SR-80i, MC3, and Portapro aren't exactly what one would call a contender in the neutral arena.

 

[xnor]

jcx, level matching really is important, yes, but do you have suggestions on how to do this? I don't think there exists something like a "reference frequency" for the brain that all other frequencies are relative to (regarding volume), therefore to level match two headphones you'd have to measure the frequency response, apply a weighting curve and calculate an average percieved volume level and use that for matching.
 
An example to show the problem:
Headphone A has a V-shaped FR, headphone B is rolled-off at both ends of the FR and also has boosted mids - how to match volume in such an extreme case?
 
 
Ham Sandwich also makes a good point and I think that the headphone that is used as reference should be a reference-grade headphone itself, which is not always the case in the reviews you can find in the other subforums.

 

[Satellite_6]

Quote:

jcx, level matching really is important, yes, but do you have suggestions on how to do this? I don't think there exists something like a "reference frequency" for the brain that all other frequencies are relative to (regarding volume), therefore to level match two headphones you'd have to measure the frequency response, apply a weighting curve and calculate an average percieved volume level and use that for matching.
 
An example to show the problem:
Headphone A has a V-shaped FR, headphone B is rolled-off at both ends of the FR and also has boosted mids - how to match volume in such an extreme case?
 
 
Ham Sandwich also makes a good point and I think that the headphone that is used as reference should be a reference-grade headphone itself, which is not always the case in the reviews you can find in the other subforums.

Use an EQ? xD

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Use an EQ? xD

How funny!   me ->

 <- you

 

[haloxt]

I tell a difference by letting it come to my attention, then to verify the observation I try to ask myself over many tracks and a long time if I still feel the same way. Imo, you have to do this for different components, and different recordings, to have a good foundation for making worthwhile conclusions. Also don't hold your opinions too tightly, test and refine them when practical.
 
I think the primary reason why some people can't hear differences (real or imagined) as readily as others is because it is actually somewhat counter to natural auditory functioning to hear some of the differences that exist between different reproduction equipment. The purpose of auditory perception is to give humans useful, intelligible data, by mentally fudging the actual auditory input. A lot of fudging or mental interpretation occurs for various reasons, to name one, sounds coming from different directions or even moving reach the ear very very differently, yet the brain can interpret different locations with equal intelligibly. Although human hearing can register subtle differences like in human voices, differentiation between different audio reproduction electronics is hardly useful to humans.
 
The best way for me to test for neutrality/fidelity, is to watch movies, because subtle nuances have a visual counterpart. The closer the sound matches the visual counterpart, the more neutral it is, but of course assuming you know what sound signature different components and movies have.