How can I know whether headphones are capable of high volume levels without distortion (before purchasing)?

[humblesquad]

I like to listen music at a loud volume. My problem is, I can't find a proper way to know whether headphones are capable of high volume levels without distortion (before purchasing).

Some headphones I've had couldn't handle high volumes and did distort (especially bass). K701, DT1770PRO and T1 for example.

I read this thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/que...-high-volumes-and-distortion-clipping.790872/
OP concluded that "max input power" was the key. It's somewhat understandable because my TH-X00 (1,800mW) and HE4XX (planar) DO NOT distort, while K701 (200mW) and T1 (300mW) DO distort; however, I've met some exceptions.

DT990PRO (250ohm)'s max input power is 100mW, which is relatively low; however, they DO NOT distort (w/ Jotunheim).
MDR-MA900's max input power is 700mW, which is relatively high; however, they DO distort.


Which specification or measurement should I check before purchasing?

 

[MindsMirror]

Check the THD plots on the Innerfidelity headphone measurements. Not all the headphones you mentioned are listed there, but for those that are, it does seem to correlate with your observation. Technically 1% can be audible, but probably not too bad. The headphones you mentioned having distortion look like they reach up to 10% on the 100dB curve.

 

[PaganDL]

Hi Humblesquad,

On any headphone spec, look at the sensitivity measurement, anything above 90 db is usually more than able to play 'loud' without distortion, low impedence helps here as well.
There are other factors such as driver tuning & type which play a part but those are more indefinable unless or even if you know what to look for.
Though why you would need to play headphones loud is questionable as you very quickly blow out your hearing as anything louder than 40 db on headphones or even 30 + for more than a few hours is a very efficient way to deafness.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I like to listen music at a loud volume. My problem is, I can't find a proper way to know whether headphones are capable of high volume levels without distortion (before purchasing).

I read this thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/que...-high-volumes-and-distortion-clipping.790872/
OP concluded that "max input power" was the key.
-----
DT990PRO (250ohm)'s max input power is 100mW, which is relatively low; however, they DO NOT distort (w/ Jotunheim).
MDR-MA900's max input power is 700mW, which is relatively high; however, they DO distort.
Which specification or measurement should I check before purchasing?

Max input power is the easiest way to guess but it doesn't show you the whole picture, mostly because even with max SPL included, both are usually at a given frequency, typically 1000hz. It doesn't tell you how much driver distortion will be present at 50hz if the headphones are playing at 120dB at 1000hz.

This get worse when you apply bass boost since, for starters, even a +1dB boost basically means you're making a headphone perform something it naturally does not do, and second, bass boost forces the driver to move out more. On a dynamic driver that means it will pump harder and will get closer to its excursion limit. That said, a cheap driver on a bass headphone will not necessarily take more bass boost than a higher quality driver that does not naturally have as much bass, but again, this is due to a lot of other factors that you can't tell just by looking at manufacturer specs.

Note that, barring a crappy amplifier, if you're actually hitting the excursion limit on a headphone, you're either 1) applying too much boost on EQ, or 2) you will not physiogically and medically speaking, be able to enjoy listening to music for that much longer.

Some headphones I've had couldn't handle high volumes and did distort (especially bass). K701, DT1770PRO and T1 for example.
---
It's somewhat understandable because my TH-X00 (1,800mW) and HE4XX (planar) DO NOT distort, while K701 (200mW) and T1 (300mW) DO distort; however, I've met some exceptions.

Planars and dynamic drivers move very differently. Most modern planars go deep into the bass region (though without much of a boost) without the need for a wide diaphragm that pumps hard. A dynamic driver needs a large surface area to hit lower freqs, but the harder it pumps to reproduce the lower freqs louder, the more it distorts, the same way that the larger the driver the less adept it is at pumping fast for higher freqs (look at the extreme example of a subwoofer vs a tweeter).

 

[humblesquad]

Thanks for replies and really useful tips.

Innerfidelity's "%THD+noise @ 90dB and 100dB" measurements are interesting, however, considering TH-X00's THD@100dB looks relatively high, I'm not sure whether it's a good barometer.

Regarding impedance and SPL, MDR-MA900's impedance is super low 12ohm and SPL is relatively high 104dB. So probably they aren't good barometers.

Max input power is the easiest way to guess but it doesn't show you the whole picture, mostly because even with max SPL included, both are usually at a given frequency, typically 1000hz. It doesn't tell you how much driver distortion will be present at 50hz if the headphones are playing at 120dB at 1000hz.

Yeah this is problematic... Innerfidelity's "%THD+noise @ 90dB and 100dB" graphs seem to be better in this respect.

I'm not using EQ btw and my hearing is fine so far luckily

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I'm not using EQ btw and my hearing is fine so far luckily

"So far, luckily" are nowhere near "sure" though.

 

[canthearyou]

It's not the headphones it's what's powering them. Period! You are experiencing clipping. Either a crappy amplifier or DAP or a badly set up EQ.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

It's not the headphones it's what's powering them. Period! You are experiencing clipping. Either a crappy amplifier or DAP or a badly set up EQ.

He's got a Jotunheim so it's not amp clipping, he's just hitting X-Max on the dynamic drivers already either with bass EQ or he has just has very high pain tolerance (which doesn't make his ear drums more durable).

 

[canthearyou]

He's got a Jotunheim so it's not amp clipping, he's just hitting X-Max on the dynamic drivers already either with bass EQ or he has just has very high pain tolerance (which doesn't make his ear drums more durable).

I glazed right over that part. Damn! Yeah, he has issues! Lol Maybe it's his ears distorting?

 

[humblesquad]

I said "at a loud volume" but it's not an insane volume: It's far below club-level I think. Anyway, let's leave my ears aside for now.

So if drivers' x-max is the key, is there a way to know it from measurements or specs?

edit: But wait... Innerfidelity's 100dB is almost club-level. K701 do distort at a far far lower volume than club-level. I'm confused now... Maybe I should try to change my interconnects or something?

edit2: Changing DAC (to ODAC, which is good enough for testing I believe) and interconnects didn't solve the issue.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I glazed right over that part. Damn! Yeah, he has issues! Lol Maybe it's his ears distorting?

Not yet since he only gets it from the dynamic driver headphones.

So if drivers' x-max is the key, is there a way to know it from measurements or specs?

You can safely assume it can get near X-Max at the rated input power but again that doesn't tell you how much more you can go at the loudest bass freq or how much more EQ you can do at any bass frequency.

I said "at a loud volume" but it's not an insane volume: It's far below club-level I think. Anyway, let's leave my ears aside for now.
---
edit: But wait... Innerfidelity's 100dB is almost club-level. K701 do distort at a far far lower volume than club-level.

I can set my amp to max output level and set the HD600 on the table as an ambient speaker. Even with EQ to reduce how drastic the roll off is below 50hz I don't hear a "thwack, thwack" sound along with the bass beat even if I put my ears near the drivers. Not that I actually do this, I just tried this a few times.

I'm confused now... Maybe I should try to change my interconnects or something?

edit2: Changing DAC (to ODAC, which is good enough for testing I believe) and interconnects didn't solve the issue.

Your interconnects have no bearing on this. Your DAC might if it's a matter of one DAC having a very low or very high voltage output that either way it causes the amp to compensate or just outright clip the signal.