Help understanding mono / stereo cables

[Mhog55]

Can someone explain the difference and design between these? What does it mean when cable plugs on the headphone end have 1 ring, and 2 rings? Why will some headphones work with either, while others won't?
Below is a picture of my 99 Classics cable, and my Brainwavz Alara cable. The 99s have 1 ring, while the Alara has 2. Yet the 99 cable seems to work fine with the Alara. I was looking to purchase a balanced cable for my Alara, but discovered the 99 cable works. Can I potentially damage my Alara using the 99 cable with only 1 ring? I see a few really nice balanced cables for sale for the Hifiman Sundara, but they also only have 1 ring. I also found some for the Sony MDR-Z7, but they have 2 rings. Would I be better off getting this?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

1 ring - mono signal, that's why there's an L and R on the ones with 1 ring.

2 rings - stereo signal, L+, R+, and common GND.

 

[Mhog55]

1 ring - mono signal, that's why there's an L and R on the ones with 1 ring.

2 rings - stereo signal, L+, R+, and common GND.

Thank you. I kind of assumed this, but I'm still confused how this relates to the individual headphone. Is the headphone wired for use with just one style, and some wired for use with both? I've read for instance that the E-mu Teak can only be used with mono plugs, yet my Alara seems to work with both. The Alara came with stereo plugs, but it seems to work with mono. My main concern is if I can potentially damage my Alara using the mono plugs. Definitely don't want that to happen.

 

[PaganDL]

@Mhog55,

I will add to @ProtegeManic's reply with the following :

While I don't have either headphones you mentioned though I am still considering the Alara sometime in the future but since there are several other head gear ahead on my list, this isn't going to be any time soon...

There are some standards which are as follows :

Generally, cable plugs or any audio plug for that matter, don't work the same as a power plug where if one doesn't have a ground of some kind or proper wiring in said power plug, there will be a short which is dangerous to both equipment & person involved.
If an audio cable plug, unless it is terminated in XLR (connector to source end), will generally either just not work or have sound only coming from one side if plugged into a socket, headphone &/or amp, if it is Mono, Stereo or Balanced plug, eg 3.5 mm which said headphone &/or amp isn't compatible with the specific audio plug.
As you pointed out, how a headphone specifically is wired will depend on the manufacturer & more often than not what industry trend they want to follow or price tier.
It's why some DAPs, eg PD & PD2, while not advertised as such, can run 3.5 Balanced terminated plugs more than fine.
Realistically, all heaphones will function just as well from a connection a single side though like in conventional electronics, separating the signal path & grounds does make a difference to a certain extent though how much is truly debatable in the real world, not to mention a preceived prestige thing to a degree which is evident in how many lower priced headphones in the last few years, have dual entry cables as opposed to the single entry.
Also, especially in the last years, there are more & more 'custom' cable makers who can sell you fancy cables wound &/or accessorised with exotic materials which they can charge double or 4x more just because there are individual left & right.
It's also why there are different plug terminations for similar reasons & why RCA, TRS variations, XLR exist.

So no, it isn't necessarily harmful to either source or headphone to plug in a Mono or Stereo cable as they are essentially transmitting the same audio signal though one channel may just be missing or like in pro audio, the stereo signal is blended into one which will make it sound more centred, especially if the source recording is done right in Mono, also known as Mono Summing.
Pro Audio Engineers & Mix Engineers often playback their work this way to check how balanced their work sounds & if any deviations to left or right occur, which may or may not be part of how an audio track is set up.

Hope this all makes sense.

Feel free to ask more if you need.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Mhog55]

@Mhogg55,

I will add to @ProtegeManic's reply with the following :

While I don't have either headphones you mentioned though I am still considering the Alara sometime in the future but since there are several other head gear ahead on my list, this isn't going to be any time soon...

There are some standards which are as follows :

Generally, cable plugs or any audio plug for that matter, don't work the same as a power plug where if one doesn't have a ground of some kind or proper wiring in said power plug, there will be a short which is dangerous to both equipment & person involved.
If an audio cable plug, unless it is terminated in XLR (connector to source end), will generally either just not work or have sound only coming from one side if plugged into a socket, headphone &/or amp, if it is Mono, Stereo or Balanced plug, eg 3.5 mm which said headphone &/or amp isn't compatible with the specific audio plug.
As you pointed out, how a headphone specifically is wired will depend on the manufacturer & more often than not what industry trend they want to follow or price tier.
It's why some DAPs, eg PD & PD2, while not advertised as such, can run 3.5 Balanced terminated plugs more than fine.
Realistically, all heaphones will function just as well from a connection a single side though like in conventional electronics, separating the signal path & grounds does make a difference to a certain extent though how much is truly debatable in the real world, not to mention a preceived prestige thing to a degree which is evident in how many lower priced headphones in the last few years, have dual entry cables as opposed to the single entry.
Also, especially in the last years, there are more & more 'custom' cable makers who can sell you fancy cables wound &/or accessorised with exotic materials which they can charge double or 4x more just because there are individual left & right.
It's also why there are different plug terminations for similar reasons & why RCA, TRS variations, XLR exist.

So no, it isn't necessarily harmful to either source or headphone to plug in a Mono or Stereo cable as they are essentially transmitting the same audio signal though one channel may just be missing or like in pro audio, the stereo signal is blended into one which will make it sound more centred, especially if the source recording is done right in Mono, also known as Mono Summing.
Pro Audio Engineers & Mix Engineers often playback their work this way to check how balanced their work sounds & if any deviations to left or right occur, which may or may not be part of how an audio track is set up.

Hope this all makes sense.

Feel free to ask more if you need.

Hope you have a great day !

When you say one channel may be missing, what exactly are you referring to? Is it simply left and right, or are we talking about something else? This makes me feel better knowing it likely won't damage my headphones, but now I'm wondering if I'm possibly missing out on something else. I haven't A/B tested to tell if I hear any differences between the stereo and mono cables. Do you think I'm better off purchasing a balanced stereo cable, rather than using the mono cable I already have?

 

[PaganDL]

When you say one channel may be missing, what exactly are you referring to? Is it simply left and right, or are we talking about something else? This makes me feel better knowing it likely won't damage my headphones, but now I'm wondering if I'm possibly missing out on something else. I haven't A/B tested to tell if I hear any differences between the stereo and mono cables. Do you think I'm better off purchasing a balanced stereo cable, rather than using the mono cable I already have?

@Mhog55,

What I mean by one channel missing is basically this...
Depending on how said cable is wired, if mono or in particular balanced 3.5 mm, as well as how the socket is wired, which the cable plug goes into, will determine whether you hear sound from the left or right channel.
This is why it is good if a socket has both left & right channels wired & wired correctly then you can 'test' how the cable will work, be it mono or otherwise, especially if you're either testing &/or making specific cables, eg mono, stereo, balanced.

In this way, you can also surmise a manufacturer's circuit building standards without opening up the casing as sometimes the amp &/or player may also perform to specs not advertised, eg Cowon Plenue D & D2 both support 3.5 Balanced which isn't advertised & I found largely by just simply plugging in a 3.5 Balanced just to see if it works.

I suggest also referring back to what @ProtegeManiac mentioned about the number of rings or poles on the cable plug will also tell you whether a plug is mono (Single Pole), stereo (2 Pole) or Balanced (3 to 4 Pole) & even if they have the relevant rings or poles on the plug, whether they are wired correctly.
Many diagrams exist, just do a search online & you will see.

As far as sound quality goes, Mono & Stereo is essentially the same, just as stated before, one channel is either absent or it isn't.
At its core, Balanced Audio Signals tend to be stronger, whether this is better or not is highly debatable & will largely depend on how good your hearing is, the placebo & perception bias & how good the manufacturer's building standards are for gear you have.
Balanced stereo is really a misnomer as stereo is technically already balanced as there is a left & right channel, the problematic issue is marketing speak has kind of corrupted this with the advent of Balanced connectors for headgear, particularly the subjectively notorious & highly overrated 2.5 mm plug which personally I can't stand for various reasons, especially a technical standpoint but that's just me...
Not to mention XLR, TRRS & 3.5 mm Balanced plugs & connectors have been around a long, long time though it wasn't discussed much outside pro audio circles for various reasons.

Do you think I'm better off purchasing a balanced stereo cable, rather than using the mono cable I already have?

I believe you answered this question yourself already in an earlier post.
If one headphone works with said mono cable & doesn't with the other then said headphone is wired only for mono channel into each driver so a standard stereo cable, balanced or not won't work.


Anyway, when it comes down to it, as long you yourself are happy to try differently wired cable options for your various headphones, on the provision they work with particular gear involved, it doesn't hurt anything but your wallet.

Hope this all makes sense, have a great day !

 

[tomb]

High quality 3.5mm mono connectors are rare. With the cable at the bottom of your pic, they simply shorted the ground to the ring or didn't connect it to anything.

 

[PaganDL]

High quality 3.5mm mono connectors are rare. With the cable at the bottom of your pic, they simply shorted the ground to the ring or didn't connect it to anything.

Yes @tomb,

Did notice that myself, usually I notice manufacturers tend just not to connect the ground to anything, especially on the headphone side.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[megabigeye]

Can someone explain the difference and design between these? What does it mean when cable plugs on the headphone end have 1 ring, and 2 rings? Why will some headphones work with either, while others won't?
Below is a picture of my 99 Classics cable, and my Brainwavz Alara cable. The 99s have 1 ring, while the Alara has 2. Yet the 99 cable seems to work fine with the Alara. I was looking to purchase a balanced cable for my Alara, but discovered the 99 cable works. Can I potentially damage my Alara using the 99 cable with only 1 ring? I see a few really nice balanced cables for sale for the Hifiman Sundara, but they also only have 1 ring. I also found some for the Sony MDR-Z7, but they have 2 rings. Would I be better off getting this?

This thread is very confusing to me... And I think others are confused as well. I think?

First, the thing you are referring to as a "ring" (the little black part, right?) is an insulator and not a "ring," per se. The tip, ring, and sleeve (TRS) are the metal/gold conductors, also called poles. The top two connectors have only a tip and a sleeve (two pole); the bottom two have a tip, ring, and sleeve (three pole). A two pole, tip-sleeve connector is often referred to as a "mono" plug, but if there are two it becomes a stereo pair.

Next, neither of these cables is mono; both are stereo, which you can tell because there are two of each connector. Can't tell from the pictures whether either of them is balanced or single-ended (I'd have to see the amp end to determine that), but in theory both could be either.

Third, as far as I'm aware, all drivers are wired in precisely the same way: one positive (+) and one negative (–) terminal/pole.


Fourth, the only reason that I can think of that a TRS plug and a TS plug wouldn't be interchangeable in a dual-entry headphone is that a connection isn't being made, in which case no damage will be done, but there will be no sound. Caveat: some amps don't like to be run with no load, so care should be taken on that front.

A mono cable has only two conductors; if it is for stereo headphones (e.g., left and right) then left (+) and right (+) channels are combined, and left (–) and right (–) channels are combined. A cable like this should only be used with a mono capable amplifier.
A stereo single-ended cable has three conductors; left (+), right (+), and combined left-right (–) (called ground or GND). A cable like this should only be used with a stereo single-ended amplifier; using it with a balanced amp can cause a short in the amplifier (unless the amp is specifically designed for this purpose).
A stereo balanced headphone cable can have between four and six conductors, depending; L+, R+, L–, R–, and sometimes either a combined or separate ground conductors (though, to be honest, I don't understand the purpose of those). A balanced TRRS plug can often be used with a single-ended amp with no damage, but one channel (left or right) may have no sound.

Some single-entry headphones (like the DT 1990) combine left (–) and right (–) within the headphone. Connecting a headphone like this to a balanced amp will cause a short within the amp.
As far as I know, any dual-entry headphone will work with a balanced cable, so long as the cable is wired correctly for the given amplifier (e.g., some are T=R(+), R1=L(+), R2=R(–), S=L(–) and some are T= R(+), R1=R(–), R2=L(+), S=L(–) ).

Anyway, sorry if this is all stuff that you already know. I was confused by this thread and thought that was because other people were confused... but maybe it was just me.

 

[Mhog55]

This thread is very confusing to me... And I think others are confused as well. I think?

First, the thing you are referring to as a "ring" (the little black part, right?) is an insulator and not a "ring," per se. The tip, ring, and sleeve (TRS) are the metal/gold conductors, also called poles. The top two connectors have only a tip and a sleeve (two pole); the bottom two have a tip, ring, and sleeve (three pole). A two pole, tip-sleeve connector is often referred to as a "mono" plug, but if there are two it becomes a stereo pair.

Next, neither of these cables is mono; both are stereo, which you can tell because there are two of each connector. Can't tell from the pictures whether either of them is balanced or single-ended (I'd have to see the amp end to determine that), but in theory both could be either.

Third, as far as I'm aware, all drivers are wired in precisely the same way: one positive (+) and one negative (–) terminal/pole.


Fourth, the only reason that I can think of that a TRS plug and a TS plug wouldn't be interchangeable in a dual-entry headphone is that a connection isn't being made, in which case no damage will be done, but there will be no sound. Caveat: some amps don't like to be run with no load, so care should be taken on that front.

A mono cable has only two conductors; if it is for stereo headphones (e.g., left and right) then left (+) and right (+) channels are combined, and left (–) and right (–) channels are combined. A cable like this should only be used with a mono capable amplifier.
A stereo single-ended cable has three conductors; left (+), right (+), and combined left-right (–) (called ground or GND). A cable like this should only be used with a stereo single-ended amplifier; using it with a balanced amp can cause a short in the amplifier (unless the amp is specifically designed for this purpose).
A stereo balanced headphone cable can have between four and six conductors, depending; L+, R+, L–, R–, and sometimes either a combined or separate ground conductors (though, to be honest, I don't understand the purpose of those). A balanced TRRS plug can often be used with a single-ended amp with no damage, but one channel (left or right) may have no sound.

Some single-entry headphones (like the DT 1990) combine left (–) and right (–) within the headphone. Connecting a headphone like this to a balanced amp will cause a short within the amp.
As far as I know, any dual-entry headphone will work with a balanced cable, so long as the cable is wired correctly for the given amplifier (e.g., some are T=R(+), R1=L(+), R2=R(–), S=L(–) and some are T= R(+), R1=R(–), R2=L(+), S=L(–) ).

Anyway, sorry if this is all stuff that you already know. I was confused by this thread and thought that was because other people were confused... but maybe it was just me.

Some of this I was aware of, but this was a very helpful response, and cleared up my questions. Much appreciated.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thank you. I kind of assumed this, but I'm still confused how this relates to the individual headphone. Is the headphone wired for use with just one style, and some wired for use with both? I've read for instance that the E-mu Teak can only be used with mono plugs, yet my Alara seems to work with both. The Alara came with stereo plugs, but it seems to work with mono. My main concern is if I can potentially damage my Alara using the mono plugs. Definitely don't want that to happen.

That depends on the headphone wiring.

If your headphone has a single entry cable on the left earcup then the common GND splits there, and there's a wire to go from the socket or the cable entry to the R+ along with another one on the GND through the headband.

If your headphone has a dual entry cable that meets somewhere then goes all the way to the stereo TRS plug then that is still single ended, albeit with separate conductors for L+, L-GND, R-GND, and R+. The dual entry, usually removable cable means you can install a balanced cable that ends in two mono TRS or one XLR or two XLR, where there are completely separate L+, L-, R-, R+ conductors all the way through.

 

[Redcarmoose]

This may have been mentioned before? If it has excuse me. The mono mini 3.5mm plugs have two connection points with one being a separate ground for each channel. The 5 pole Pentaconn 4.4mm has 4 connections to the balanced amplifier with one pole unused. It may be exactly like a 4 contact 2.5mm plug?

The drawing directly below would be the 3.5mm plug going into the headphone cup on each side.

 

[megabigeye]

Some of this I was aware of, but this was a very helpful response, and cleared up my questions. Much appreciated.

Glad I could help!

I forgot to add that I'm not an electrical engineer or anything resembling one, I just have a modest amount of experience with this stuff and thought I recognized some misunderstandings that could be cleared up. All of this is a "to the best of my knowledge" answer, and you should feel free to do more research regarding it. I do my best to not make stuff up, but sometimes I forget or misunderstand something. Please don't take what I say as the final word, but only an entry point.

 

[scottm18]

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