[johnsneo]

Hi everyone, this is my second post on the Head-Fi community forums!
 
I'm fairly new to the audio world and want to invest in a good set of IEMs. I have the V-MODA Crossfade M-100s which I enjoy

, however now that it's summer, over-ear headphones generate too much heat and sweat. I had to use my warranty when the right ear of the M-100s died. I assume it was the moisture and heat that caused the malfunction since I only took off the headphones to air out my ears when I noticed it had stopped working. (It's back fully functional, but now it sits on my desk rarely used since it gets steamy in minutes when I put them on)
 
I primarily listen to bass heavy music (House, Hip-hop, Chill-Trap, etc), but I occasionally switch to classical music or soundtracks when I relax and need to take a break from all the chaos. So essentially I'm looking for something that focuses primarily on delivering good bass, but remains clean enough in the middles and highs that I don't have to switch earphones just to enjoy classical.
 
I've been looking into some of the popular IEMs here on Head-Fi, but I noticed the majority of you use Amplifiers, DACs, Hi-Res Music Players or other modifiers which I, as a complete neophyte, am ignorant of and do not possess. In fact, the majority of the music files that I possess are probably low quality MP3 files. Heck, I don't even know how to check! As such, I'm not sure if I am in need or even would want something that is very balanced and neutral sounding which seems to be so very important to many enthusiasts. Though I suppose I can always purchase and learn to use an Amplifier, DAC, EQ, etc. I am interested in the audiophile world (my poor wallet trembles when I say that

), but I am unsure of what would be a smart purchase for me, with my current financial position as a college student with a part-time job. I do have the Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 which I use on my desktop in conjunction with M-100s at the moment. Other than that, I have an old iTouch (2nd generation) for on the go. However that is the extent of my audio equipment. I was hoping that I can find some suggestion and tips from the experienced community in how I should progress.
 
I've been looking into IEMs (Shure SE215, Sony XBAH1, Sony MDR-XB90EX, V-MODA Zn, Yamaha EPH-100, MEE audio Pinnacle P1, Beats by Dre [jk

], etc.), Hi-Res Music Players (FiiO X1, FiiO X3-II [is it worth to get the X3 over the X1?], etc.), and DACs (JDS Labs Objective 2, FiiO E12 Mont Blanc, FiiO A3, FiiO E6, etc.) and it's making my head-spin and I suddenly realize how my measly budget of around $100-300 seems laughable. I'm probably willing to stretch to $400 if it would really be that much better of an investment. I don't really plan on going beyond this tier in the near future, at least until I graduate and get a steady income, so I don't want to handicap and prevent myself from obtaining a great listening experience. However I truly shouldn't be spending beyond what is necessary. But with my own lack of experience, I am unsure if what I need. I don't even know what I don't know 

!
Any advice to a clueless fledgling? Many thanks in advance guys! 

 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

When it comes to IEMs, their sensitivity is generally very high, so any smartphone with decent audio would suffice as long as the impedance is 16ohms and above. That high sensitivity means it will need less power to go louder, and that means less work for whatever it's plugged into, so unless there are very clear flaws in whatever smartphone you have, a separate DAP isn't going to make a lot of difference. Between my SGS3 and the Fiio X1, the Fiio had tighter bass (ie X1 bass = thudthudthudthudthud, SGS3 bass - thwuudthwuudthwuudthwuudthwuud); also the SGS3 can go from "almost there..." to "TURN IT DOWN!!!" with one press, while the Fiio had around eight steps between those (recent Android music player apps had updates that fixed that problem). For $100 I would say that's worth it, but for someone like me who's got enough stuff in his bag, lugging around one more device is usually not, more so when my phone has enough storage thanks to a microSD card and I had been using it as a home audio server (all that would change once I get an X7 though).

 

[cel4145]

For $100, a Fiio X1 is a great DAP that will sound very good with IEMs and your M100s.

However, your old iPod Touch likely sounds very good (I have not heard one). Is it close to the SQ of your Dragonfly? If so, I wouldn't upgrade over it if your budget is limited. Save that for headphones and IEMs. If your iPod doesn't quite have enough juice for your M100s, then a Fiio A3 would work well.

 

[PinkyPowers]

I say get a FiiO X1 and the Audio Technica ATH-IM03, which can be found for a good price now that it's discontinued.

 

[johnsneo]

Thanks for all the replies and sorry for the late response!
 
With all three of you approving the Fiio X1, I was very tempted to buy it immediately, but managed to hold off. I'm currently on the fence of upgrading my old Galaxy S3 phone, in which case it may not be necessary to buy a whole new DAP as it might not be a huge improvement in SQ. However the Fiio X1 still is on my radar and so are the X3 II and X5 II (the larger amp and Line Out features interest me).
 
I've done a decent bit of research in the past week and I realized that perhaps neutral sounding pair of IEMs aren't so bad of an idea as long as I could fiddle with the EQ and get the fun  amount of bass I wanted. A lot of the music I listen to combines the bass and synthesizers (V-shape) of regular EDM music with lyrical vocals, guitar, flute, and splash of other instruments so it got me thinking that I shouldn't ignore the mid range completely. But the deciding factor probably will be a good bass, then the clarity and at least decent comfort.
 
But with that in mind, I continued through and made a list of IEMs that were within my price range from around $70-200. With some of these I heard that getting an amp or different ear tips made a huge difference. If anyone could share any of their experiences/knowledge/comparisons of the following IEMs or any recommendations in general, I would be very grateful.
 
Sennheiser Momentum In Ear ~$70
Audio-Technica ATH-IM50 ~$70
Audio-Technica ATH-IM70 ~$105
Sony XBA-H1 ~$75
Sony MDR-XB90EX ~$90
HiFiMan RE-400 ~$80
Yamaha EPH-100 ~$100
Shure SE215 ~$100
Rock-It Sounds R-50 ~$120
Vsonic GR07 Bass Edition ~$130
Dunu DN-1000 ~$160
V-Moda Zn ~$180
RHA T10i ~$200
MEE audio Pinnacle P1 ~$200
 
Currently leaning toward the MEE audio Pinnacle P1 after getting absorbed into its thread lol. If I do, then I'll need to look into an amp apparantely...uhg even more work >.< But I please ask you all to do some cold judgement for me. Any little comment helps, even for amusement lmao. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[zsejk]

That's a pretty good list!
 

 
I have the HiFiMAN RE-400s and the V-Moda Zns, and I really enjoy both of them a lot. Perhaps I would say that the HiFiMAN is a little more detailed, and the V-Moda has a little more kick to the bass.
 
Price-wise you can't really go wrong with the HiFiMAN, and it would be my recommendation. Its sound quality is really good, it's light and comfortable, and does extremely well with all kinds of music. When I said above that the V-Moda has a little more kick to the bass I don't mean to imply that the HiFiMAN doesn't. Because it does, and I never listen to it and miss anything at any point of the spectrum. It's just that I tend to notice the bass as a positive point every time I listen to the V-Moda, hence I thought it would be useful to mention here.
 
Have fun researching!

 

[johnsneo]

Thanks for replying zsejk!
 
For the HiFiMan, do you get any fatigue from the treble or high end? I was playing around with my JVC HA-FX40 and I realized with certain songs, the highs were just unbearable and had this screechy sound. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but I learned that I'm not so very good with too much treble if it's going to be screechy. It was much more smoothed over when I listened to the same songs on the JVC HA-FX1X and on my V-Moda Crossfade M100. I don't know if that's because it was warmer, or muddled but in either case I much preferred that to the screech of the HA-FX40.
 
Also does the HiFiMan have enough bass for EDM or a semi-bass lover? When you mentioned that the V-Moda Zn did make you notice the bass, I was almost immediately gravitated towards that regardless of the clarity you mentioned for the HiFiMan. Unless of course the Zn is muddled and lacks clarity. But that shows how much I do like a good bass. The rumble is nice, but a lot of songs I listen to has a decently quick beat. Do you think the Zn or the HiFiMan has a fast enough pace bass?
 
Once again thanks for the response

 

[zsejk]

No fatigue whatsoever with the HiFiMAN in the highs. Clear and enjoyable. And it packs some good lows as well: I listen to some melodic death metal every once in a while (if the moods strikes me and all that), and the HiFiMAN does all the "singing" lows and musicality with pretty great stage to boost. I must admit I haven't tried it with EDM a lot, but I can give it a whirl for you if you want.
 
I must admit I always use the HiFiMANs with some comply foam tips and usually with a cMoyBB headphone amp, so perhaps that changes things slightly. I couldn't get a good fit at all with any of the non-foam tips that came with the HiFiMAN, so I can't really do a comparison of how they sound with and without foam tips (with a crap fit of the tips, everything sounds... well, crap).
 
I was looking at the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 myself recently... trying so hard to resist the urge to get some!

Are you happy with it? I guess from what I've read about that headphone, it seems to appeal to connaisseurs and appreciators of the finer layers and enjoyment of bass. Would that be accurate in your case? I think that if it is, perhaps the V-Moda Zn might be the right choice for you in a comparison between just the HiFiMAN and the Zn. The Zn is I believe known to have a nice bass (somewhat overly enthousiastic appreciation thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/786622/v-moda-zn-official-discussion-feedback-reviews-pics-videos-etc), and even though I really never sit around listening to the HiFiMAN missing any bass quality, whenever I listen to the Zn I'm always struck by the nice bass. So whatever that might mean... who knows.
 
I do also listen to jazz and folk music with the V-Moda Zn, and never actively notice it lacking clarity. Perhaps for me the HiFiMAN performs better for those genres, but by no means does the Zn perform poorly. Note that these are all impressions from "just listening". So no dedicated listening and comparison sessions, just me having them on to enjoy some music during work.
 
I can give a judgment on pacy bass if you have some example songs for me to try. Also give some rumble examples while you're at it, I can do a small bass appreciation session.
 

 
 
[edit: also let me know what song gave you a screechy sensation with your JVC HA-FX40, I can have a listen to it with the HiFiMAN and Zn]

 

[johnsneo]

V-MODA Crossfade M-100s are very nice. I never noticed any lack of clarity with them, they have enough bass for bassheads, and they're very durable. Not going into a full review on it, but some cons about the M-100s is that the earpads/earcups are very shallow. I bought the XL Memory Cushion pads V-MODA sells which makes it much more comfortable, but the tip of my ears still touch the driver covers. Other than that, I'm happy with them. However they're my only pair of audiophile level headphones so I can't really compare. 
 
For the low rumbling bass, maybe this song that I listen to can work as an example: Pure Grinding - Avicii
For the shrill highs, I first noticed it during this Korean song. It was especially noticeable in the 'sh' and 'ch'. 타코앤제이형 - 이대로도 예뻐(with 임동현)
The HA-FX40 gave me a little shiver when I heard it. With my M-100s it was still sharp and crisp, but not shrill.
For pacy bass, I couldn't really think of a good example so I'll just list a "few" songs I currently enjoy that're in my "Beats" playlist:
[Future Bass] - Pegboard Nerds - Just Like That (feat. Johnny Graves) [Monstercat EP Release]
Cartoon - On & On (feat. Daniel Levi) [NCS Release]
【Chill Trap】Flux Pavilion & Matthew Koma - Emotional
Mikey Wax - Bottle of Jack (Achtabahn Remix)
LVTHER ft. MYZICA - Some Kind Of Magic
【Chill】aKu - The Final Blow
Jane XØ - Lies
 
Yeah sorry, I said a "few" but the list kept on getting bigger as I went through my playlist until i forced myself to stop lol. But with this you can see my preference on music, at least the amount of bass I enjoy. I really do like piano music as well. Classics like Chopin, Contemporary stuff like from Greg Maroney, or OSTs from anime, movies, etc.
 
Anyone reading the thread, please don't be afraid to leave a comment/reply below!

 

[zsejk]

Back again with some listening results.
 

 
Running things through an ODAC/O2 set-up, so I don't get distracted by the annoying hiss my laptop runs through its headphone port.
 
"Pure Grinding" by Avicii? Get the V-Moda Zn, 100%. It's still an IEM of course, but the bass almost has a physical impact, and a nice deep roll to it. On the HiFiMANs the bass is still there, but I would classify it as "meh...". Definitely no real rolling feel to it, and it doesn't really linger properly.
 
타코앤제이형 - 이대로도 예뻐(with 임동현) sounded fine on both the HiFiMAN and the Zn. No real shrillness that I found. Perhaps the cymbal-like sound somewhere in the background is just annoying to me personally, but I had the same level of annoyance with it on both IEMs. Didn't notice anything shrill or annoying about the sh and ch sounds in the singing or rapping on either headphone. The HiFiMAN for this song did much better with separation I felt though, and made the guitars shine a little more.
 
With the pacy bass songs, I guess I personally would say most definitely the V-Moda Zn wins. I am not a bass expert, so I can't say for sure that the Zn does the bass "properly". I.e., does the quick bass bleed into each other a little, is it snappy enough, etc.? I can't really tell for sure... I don't have any full-size headphones that are true champions of bass, so I don't have a proper reference to compare the two IEMs against. For those songs you listed however, on the HiFiMAN it's like the bass was hardly even there. The Zn definitely has the bass, and it has a really nice impact. Just a lot more fun, I would say. With the HiFiMAN you would almost be wondering why you are even listening to those songs.
 
I also tried "A New Error" by Moderat (just for kicks and giggles), where once again the Zn is way on top of the HiFiMAN with regards to bass impact. With the HiFiMAN it is almost not there, but with the Zn it's almost overwhelmingly there. With this song, being not really the bass expert, I can't tell whether the Zn maybe does the bass a little too much? It rumbles on and on in the background, whilst still thumping you with the more up-tempo bass. Perhaps you can have a listen to that song and see how your favorite bass-headphone makes that song sound.
 
For the set of songs you gave me, for all but perhaps the Korean song, I would for sure recommend the Zn.
 
For Chopin, I would personally grab the HiFiMAN. The Zn also does it perfectly fine, but with the Zn it's like your listening to piano music, whereas with the HiFiMAN it's like you're listening to someone play the piano, if that makes any sense. More space around the music, maybe? I could call it a bigger soundstage, but I don't know if that's even allowed for IEMs

 

 

[johnsneo]

Please leave a reply or comment below to anyone reading! Any opinion or suggestion will be helpful ^^
 
Oh wow zsejk, thanks for test listening for me!
 
Yeah it seems with the type of music that I primarily listen to, I'll need a pair of earphones that specifically stand out with regards to bass. Although detail and clarity is always nice, I'll probably enjoy the thump and power of a more bass oriented IEM. Once again, thanks for test listening the songs for me. It made me realize that although having neutral and analytical sounding phones may sound attractive after reading multiple forums from Head-Fi, in the end what I'm looking for is an enjoyable listening experience. And that, I'll only achieve by sticking to sound signatures that suit and are tailored to my needs/preference. I'll do some more research on the V-MODA Zn and see if I can find some comparisons with some of the other more bass inclined IEMs I have on my list. 
 
As is, I'll place the HiFiMan in another list for later. I'll probably eventually go searching for a pair of IEMs that have a large sound-stage, good clarity/separation, and a more balanced sound signature that will be for my classical indulging. When I save up again and feel the "need"/urge/temptation (I think we all get it) for a new listening experience, I'll give the HiFiMan RE-400 another look.
 
One last question for the two earphones. Do you notice a need for or an increase in SQ when you're using a DAC/amp with them? Like I said in my first post, I only have the Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 and the old iTouch 2nd generation (2008). I'm upgrading my phone to the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge so that'll probably increase the SQ of my portable listening. But other than that, I've been looking into DACs and amps and wondering if they'd be worth the money. I'd probably save up and buy something later after receiving my IEMs, but was wondering if you had any comments with regards to that. Thanks again!

 

[zsejk]

   
One last question for the two earphones. Do you notice a need for or an increase in SQ when you're using a DAC/amp with them? Like I said in my first post, I only have the Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 and the old iTouch 2nd generation (2008). I'm upgrading my phone to the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge so that'll probably increase the SQ of my portable listening. But other than that, I've been looking into DACs and amps and wondering if they'd be worth the money. I'd probably save up and buy something later after receiving my IEMs, but was wondering if you had any comments with regards to that. Thanks again!

 
Using either from the Fiio X3II, definitely not (not surprising of course). Using them from my iPod Classic 6th gen, I didn't really feel I needed amping, but I tried it anyway (cMoyBB from JDS Labs), and I found especially with the HiFiMAN that it makes them just sound all around a little better. Not immensely like holy-whatever-how-did-I-ever-use-these-without-amping, but just sort of... better. Everything that's good about them, just becomes better. I really don't think you need amping for SQ with either of these, but it's of course still nice to get at some point. I don't have one myself, but I think your Dragonfly v1.2 (thread derailment: how is it with the V-Moda M-100's?) should be perfectly adequate for either of these IEMs (HiFiMAN RE-400 and V-Moda Zn).
 
I also second your request for other people to chime in, now we still only know a small amount about only 2 IEMs...