Help connecting balanced tube amp (and unbalanced to balanced converter) to unbalanced dac...

[bogginhead]

I'm soon to be trying to connect a Loxjie P20 balanced tube amp to either my Modi Multibit or my Modi 3. I know neither of these are balanced dac, so I'm probably about to get a Sonifex UB-RL1 unbalanced to balanced converter as well. What I need to know is the cables I'll need to do all of this (how many, what termination, etc). I have a balanced XLR to dual 3.5mm cable coming for my headphones, but this part I'm a little wary of (kinda afraid I'll end up spending money I may not have had to if I'd asked someone, lol). Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[buke9]

There is no need for a balanced cable between the dac and amp as it has rca connectors and it will not do anything for sound quality either.

 

[PaganDL]

I'm soon to be trying to connect a Loxjie P20 balanced tube amp to either my Modi Multibit or my Modi 3. I know neither of these are balanced dac, so I'm probably about to get a Sonifex UB-RL1 unbalanced to balanced converter as well. What I need to know is the cables I'll need to do all of this (how many, what termination, etc). I have a balanced XLR to dual 3.5mm cable coming for my headphones, but this part I'm a little wary of (kinda afraid I'll end up spending money I may not have had to if I'd asked someone, lol). Any help is greatly appreciated!

Hi @bogginhead,

As @buke9 stated, having a balanced connection to the Loxjie P 20 from either the Multibit or Modi 3 isn't going to make any difference to the sound quality as both the latter are unbalanced with those RCA connections.
There is no technical way to fix this short of rewiring & voiding the warranty on those DACs anyway.

Honestly, as I have a Loxjie P 20, with the option to go balanced all the way from input to output, I agree with @buke9, there is absolutely no difference in sound quality & I prefer single ended in any case when using the P 20.
There is certainly less messing around with cables too.
Sure, the audio signal in balanced may be stronger but in this case, doesn't mean it is better or make a lick of difference in sound.

So I suggest saving your money for something else.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I'm soon to be trying to connect a Loxjie P20 balanced tube amp to either my Modi Multibit or my Modi 3. I know neither of these are balanced dac, so I'm probably about to get a Sonifex UB-RL1 unbalanced to balanced converter as well. What I need to know is the cables I'll need to do all of this (how many, what termination, etc). I have a balanced XLR to dual 3.5mm cable coming for my headphones, but this part I'm a little wary of (kinda afraid I'll end up spending money I may not have had to if I'd asked someone, lol). Any help is greatly appreciated!

That tube amp has single ended inputs so it can work with the Modi. Just connect them with an RCA to RCA cable.

If anything consult the manual or at least don't make permanent balanced cables for your headphones (ie if they're replaceable cables then get the cheapest you can get; if they're soldered on, don't bother), then try if the balanced output on the amp still works even with the signal coming from the single ended inputs. It's common for amps to do this now but if you can't confirm it on the manual try to make the expenditure to try the balanced output as low as possible.

 

[bogginhead]

Couldn't I (if I really just wanted to) turn the unbalanced to balanced with the Sonifex? I'm able to get one for next to nothing...

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Couldn't I (if I really just wanted to) turn the unbalanced to balanced with the Sonifex? I'm able to get one for next to nothing...

You can. That does not mean you should.

if the balanced amp's unbalanced inputs converts the signal to balanced so the headphone works, then you already have something that will do what that will do. That's why I said consult the manual (or the manufacturer if necessary, if you don't want to just try it out later).

If the Soniflex can boost the signal voltage but the amp's converter does not, then maybe there's some benefit, assuming it can do that without adding noise.

In short, what I'm saying is, if you get nothing in the way of improving the system, then it doesn't matter if you spent "next to nothing," you got nothing for it. Spending $500 on a miniscule improvement will still be a more worthwhile expense compared to spending $25 to get nothing out of it than to add clutter to your desk.

 

[bogginhead]

You can. That does not mean you should.

if the balanced amp's unbalanced inputs converts the signal to balanced so the headphone works, then you already have something that will do what that will do. That's why I said consult the manual (or the manufacturer if necessary, if you don't want to just try it out later).

If the Soniflex can boost the signal voltage but the amp's converter does not, then maybe there's some benefit, assuming it can do that without adding noise.

In short, what I'm saying is, if you get nothing in the way of improving the system, then it doesn't matter if you spent "next to nothing," you got nothing for it. Spending $500 on a miniscule improvement will still be a more worthwhile expense compared to spending $25 to get nothing out of it than to add clutter to your desk.

Thanks you. Any converters besides the Sonifex you'd recommend? I've also been looking at the Nobsound Little Bear MC3...

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks you. Any converters besides the Sonifex you'd recommend? I've also been looking at the Nobsound Little Bear MC3...

I mentioned one you might already have. Consult the manual of the tube amp. If it has an internal converter and it doesn't add noise why would you use an external unit. It's there and it works. You might as well save the money for the external converter to get a true balanced output DAC. Or upgrade to a signle box balanced drive/balanced output DAC-HPamp-Preamp.

 

[bogginhead]

I finally received the pieces I'd ordered. It seems as if just using my Modi Multibit + Loki EQ to the Loxjie P20 works well using the balanced input / output without adding the Sonifex UB-RL1 into the mix. Does this mean I'm getting an actual balanced signal this way? Or is it still single ended? I'm going to try putting the Sonifex in between the dac and amp later today just to see if I can hear any difference in sound.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I finally received the pieces I'd ordered. It seems as if just using my Modi Multibit + Loki EQ to the Loxjie P20 works well using the balanced input / output without adding the Sonifex UB-RL1 into the mix. Does this mean I'm getting an actual balanced signal this way? Or is it still single ended?

The amplifier takes the singel ended signal and converts it to balanced drive.

If you want to make sure it's balanced drive, take the headphone cable apart at the headphone end, then look for the L- and R- wires. Hook up the XLR plug to the amp, then cross the L- and R-. If it stops working, it was running balanced. You won't have an amplifier anymore, but at least you're sure that's what it used to sound like balanced when it was working.

I'm going to try putting the Sonifex in between the dac and amp later today just to see if I can hear any difference in sound.

It's not a fully balanced signal since you're still taking a single ended signal to feed into a converter.

The only difference is that now you have the converter outside of the amplifier instead of the one built into it.

I mean seriously if you're going to worry so much about whether the signal is fully balanced or not why add something that doesn't do that anyway? Just save up and get a balanced output DAC.

 

[bogginhead]

Well, the only real reason I decided to give this way a go before doing the very thing you've been suggesting is because I was offered the Sonifex converter for about $35; it's normally a $300 piece of equipment. It was a whole lot cheaper than the balanced dacs I'd been looking at for a few weeks. But sadly, it didn't do the job very well: when trying it tonight with the Modi Multibit + Loxjie P20 it worked, but it also brought in an audible static and interference noise. So I unplugged it and reconnected using the RCA to XLR cables; the sound was back to almost black when no audio was playing. I hate it didn't work well enough for me. I cannot handle the noise issue, and I guess I'll need to start checking out some balanced dacs again, lol.

One more question:. I have the Massdrop CTH + SDAC. When using it, I hear some kind of "blip" noises that I don't hear when playing the same songs using the Mimby / P20. Any idea what that could be, and how to correct it?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, the only real reason I decided to give this way a go before doing the very thing you've been suggesting is because I was offered the Sonifex converter for about $35; it's normally a $300 piece of equipment. It was a whole lot cheaper than the balanced dacs I'd been looking at for a few weeks. But sadly, it didn't do the job very well: when trying it tonight with the Modi Multibit + Loxjie P20 it worked, but it also brought in an audible static and interference noise. So I unplugged it and reconnected using the RCA to XLR cables; the sound was back to almost black when no audio was playing. I hate it didn't work well enough for me. I cannot handle the noise issue, and I guess I'll need to start checking out some balanced dacs again, lol.

Like I said previously...$35 sounds cheap, but if it at best does nothing to improve the sound anyway over using just the equipment that already does the same thing, then you basically threw away $35.

Even if balanced DACs are too expensive you could have just put the $35 towards one or just spend it on music, or other things like replacement earpads.

One more question:. I have the Massdrop CTH + SDAC. When using it, I hear some kind of "blip" noises that I don't hear when playing the same songs using the Mimby / P20. Any idea what that could be, and how to correct it?

It could be a driver issue on the SDAC.

 

[Subdusted]

True balance is the way to go. Some DACs sound quite noticeably better through XLR outputs than RCA, with others you won't hear any difference. But what you always get is the immunity to noise.