Headphones advice, Grado sr225e vs sr325e or alternatives

[N0v4]

Before asking for your advice I would like to thank the members of this forum, on many occasion I have used your knowledge 

 
 
And now to my question, i'm looking to buy a new set of headphones, untill now i have mainly used  my Grado sr80 and i have some experience with studio product, a couple of weeks ago the Sr80 give up on me so i started looking for a replacement.
 
Some things you could find helpful:
-I loved the Grado sound and i would prefer to remain with grado.
-I listed to all music but mainly Progressive(e.g. Dream Theater), Symphonic Metal (e.g. Nightwish).
-I don't plan on using an amp, i am willing to buy one if i need it but i don't have one at the moment.
 
That sayd, i have read many reviews and other topics on this forum but i still have some confusion, for what i've gatered the sr125e sound quite similar to the sr80e and the real turning point for grado are the sr225e, also many post explain the difference between the sr225 and the sr325 but there are quite a few that prefer the sr225 sound over the sr325's.
 
Also i would like you to consider that i live in Italy and buy grado products can be tricky and the prices are ridiculously high compared to the US, the lowest price for the sr225e is 250€ and for the sr325e we go up to 350€, this is relevant because for about 150€ i could get the Audio Technica Pro ATH-M50X or the Beyerdynamic DT 770/880/990 PRO.
 
So, sorry for the long post, my final questions are:
 
1-Considering my music taste are the sr325e actually better then the sr225e?
2-Would i need an amp for the sr225 or sr325? (for what i have read they work quite well without)
3-In light of the price it is still a good choice to buy a sr225/sr325 instead of a great alternative with a good amp? (even if i really love the grado sound)
 
Thanks in advance to those who will decide to read and help clarify my doubts!

 

[N0v4]

bump (waited until it got to page 2)

 

[adtrance]

Try again in the Grado e series forum.

I haven't heard the 225 so can't offer a comparison. The 325e are very good through both the amps I have in my sig. Direct from iPhone 6 sounds great too but direct from laptop not as good.

If you don't get a Grado this time, you might be left wondering "what if?" So get a Grado this time.

: )

 

[tomb]

I don't want to sound discouraging, but:
 
1. Great Grados need an amp.
2. The real difference comes when you leave the SR line and pursue something like the RS-series or the PS-500.
3. I love Grados more than any other headphones, but I'm not sure I'd pay the price difference you're citing, especially with the other headphones you mention at such a lower price.
 
You may have better luck on ebay or pursuing the for sale section here on Head-Fi.  You might be able to get a higher-end model used and if someone in the states is willing to ship it to you, it could be cheaper than what you'd pay for a lower model in Italy.

 

[N0v4]

Try again in the Grado e series forum.

I haven't heard the 225 so can't offer a comparison. The 325e are very good through both the amps I have in my sig. Direct from iPhone 6 sounds great too but direct from laptop not as good.

If you don't get a Grado this time, you might be left wondering "what if?" So get a Grado this time.

: )

hehe, you get my problem, right now i'm looking at some alternatives and they look great but.... what if once i've plugged all in I'll miss that something that grado has?
 

  I don't want to sound discouraging, but:
 
1. Great Grados need an amp.
2. The real difference comes when you leave the SR line and pursue something like the RS-series or the PS-500.
3. I love Grados more than any other headphones, but I'm not sure I'd pay the price difference you're citing, especially with the other headphones you mention at such a lower price.
 
You may have better luck on ebay or pursuing the for sale section here on Head-Fi.  You might be able to get a higher-end model used and if someone in the states is willing to ship it to you, it could be cheaper than what you'd pay for a lower model in Italy.

Not discouraging at all, thanks for the info, i get what your saying about the quality difference and i would love to get an high end grado but right now i don't feel like investing the 750-950€ that those headphones costs here in italy, not counting the quality amplifier that would be needed.
My question was narrowed to the Sr225 and Sr325 for that reason, but i'll make sure to check the sale section!
 
 
The price here is quite a deciding factor, i could get the Sr325 + a Magni class amp for around 430€, or i could get the Beyerdynamic's DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm + same AMP for pretty much half the price, 220-230€, the price difference is just ridiculous...
 
Right now, after reading some more, the B990 is growing on me, i get that is not the standard neutral headset and it is quite controversial but it seems like a fun headset, i like that is open, i am not looking for a flat headset and i'll be using it to listen, not producing or mixing so it seems a good fit per my needs.

 

[cel4145]

This might help. With the i series (I'm guessing it's true with the e series), the difference between the SR80i and SR225i was three things:

1) heavier duty cable with the 225
2) l-cush pads on 225
3) better matched drivers

If you took the l cush pads off a 225 and put it on a 80, you'd get 80 to 90% of the way to the same sound of the 225. The rest of the difference is, IMO, is the better matched drivers. They are the same drivers, just measured to be a more perfect match (Grado drivers are hand wound in their factory).

The 325 is different. It's the 225 with metal cups. That's obviously going to affect the treble (reflecting off metal instead of plastic), which is why they are brighter.

So if you like the 80 series, certainly the new e models are a bit different drivers, I'd suggest trying some SR80e and some l-cush pads. Or if the cost is not a burden, get the SR225e along with some S pads that the 80 series uses. Then you have the option of changing the 225 back to the 80 sound, only with better matched drivers.

 

[N0v4]

This might help. With the i series (I'm guessing it's true with the e series), the difference between the SR80i and SR225i was three things:
1) heavier duty cable with the 225
2) l-cush pads on 225
3) better matched drivers
If you took the l cush pads off a 225 and put it on a 80, you'd get 80 to 90% of the way to the same sound of the 225. The rest of the difference is, IMO, is the better matched drivers. They are the same drivers, just measured to be a more perfect match (Grado drivers are hand wound in their factory).
The 325 is different. It's the 225 with metal cups. That's obviously going to affect the treble (reflecting off metal instead of plastic), which is why they are brighter.
So if you like the 80 series, certainly the new e models are a bit different drivers, I'd suggest trying some SR80e and some l-cush pads. Or if the cost is not a burden, get the SR225e along with some S pads that the 80 series uses. Then you have the option of changing the 225 back to the 80 sound, only with better matched drivers.

 
That's useful, I failed to mention that the Sr80 that i had came with the l-cush/bowls (i don't know if was a choice of the hi-fi store where i got them or was standart at the time, we're talking 10years ago), so i have some years of experience with those, i actually never tryed the s-cush or the "flats".
Basically what you're saying is that going up from the 80, to 125 and 225 i should expect a nicer sound due to a better tuning of the hardware but no real difference while with the 325 and the different material i would notice the difference that many users pointed out on other topic in this forum, good to know.

 

[liquidzoo]

Check out the 5 posts starting with this one:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/24930#post_11625809
 
Full line Grado reviews with and without an amp.
 
Sweet spot (according to this poster, as well as a lot of other people) of the SR line is the 225.
 
I have them, and you would not be disappointed with them for sure.

 

[N0v4]

Check out the 5 posts starting with this one:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/24930#post_11625809
Full line Grado reviews with and without an amp.
Sweet spot (according to this poster, as well as a lot of other people) of the SR line is the 225.
I have them, and you would not be disappointed with them for sure.

 
That's very useful, thanks for the link, i've searched the forum more then once but those posts evaded me, there are too many information here!
Reading the review consolidated what i already thought, the Sr225 whould be a better pick.
 
But now i am wondering, i've read the difference between the 225e and the 225i, the 225e is supposed to have a sligtly tamed tremble and more profound and articulated bass so overall i think they should be a better pick, can anyone confirm/disprove this?
 
Also for my original question n.2 (do i need an amp?), i think that if i decide to go with the grado initially i'll not get one, and during the "burn in" period i'll decide what to do, all the topic that i've read confirmed that they sound great without, also almost al the posts sayd that they benefit for an amp and improve but only marginally so i don't see any reason to rush the decision.

 

[liquidzoo]

I have an amp.
 
Do I need it?  Probably not, honestly.  I have a FiiO E17/E09K combo, but they'd be just as good through my sound card on my PC.
 
Note:  If you go with the 225 (and possibly the 125, can't remember on the 80 though) you will need an adapter if you don't have a source with a 6.3mm jack.  Grado sells an adapter that works, and is probably as easy as any.
 
There are a few PC sound cards that have the 6.3mm jack on it already (the Creative Sound Blaster Zx and ZxR come to mind, the jack is on the desktop unit that comes with them), but it's often just easier to get the adapter.
 
For your other question:  Unless you find someone who has them in stock, you would have to buy the 225i used.  The i series (all the way to the top) has been replaced with the e series.

 

[N0v4]

  I have an amp.
Do I need it?  Probably not, honestly.  I have a FiiO E17/E09K combo, but they'd be just as good through my sound card on my PC.
 
Note:  If you go with the 225 (and possibly the 125, can't remember on the 80 though) you will need an adapter if you don't have a source with a 6.3mm jack.  Grado sells an adapter that works, and is probably as easy as any.
 
There are a few PC sound cards that have the 6.3mm jack on it already (the Creative Sound Blaster Zx and ZxR come to mind, the jack is on the desktop unit that comes with them), but it's often just easier to get the adapter.
For your other question:  Unless you find someone who has them in stock, you would have to buy the 225i used.  The i series (all the way to the top) has been replaced with the e series.

 
Great info on the Amp, it's good to get info from someone with direct experience, i'll probably still get one for future use but not right now.
 
On the note, thanks for reminding me, actually the sr80 are the opposite, they use a 3,5mm jack and have a 3,5 to 6,3 adapter in the box.
 
As for the 225i, i can find them new quite easily, here in europe we're old style, but they rise the price even more (the 225e are already overpriced) so i don't think there is any reason to prefer the 225i over the 225e.

 

[liquidzoo]

I forgot the adapter came with the 60s and 80s.  It's the 125 and up that have the 6.3mm stock cable and do not come with the adapter (important to note, I forgot when I bought mine, so I had to wait a week until I was back in the area where I bought them to get the adapter, though with my desktop amp I don't need it).
 
I'd say go for the 225e if the i is more expensive (very likely since it's discontinued).

 

[cel4145]

Check out the 5 posts starting with this one:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/24930#post_11625809

Full line Grado reviews with and without an amp.

Sweet spot (according to this poster, as well as a lot of other people) of the SR line is the 225.

I have them, and you would not be disappointed with them for sure.

+1

kayandjohn really knows his Grados (huge Grado fan), so good comparisons to read.

And note that other than the subbass issue he had with the CMOY, the differences between amps were not really significant to him. Grados are just not that hard to drive. You just want to make sure you are using a device that has a low enough output impedance. The only time I've heard a big difference was going from my Xonar DX to using a headphone amp with the DX, and it was because the DX does not have a headphone amp. So not a good impedance match up. If you want a headphone amp for 'em, get an E11K for under $100

 

[tomb]

 

Check out the 5 posts starting with this one:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/24930#post_11625809

Full line Grado reviews with and without an amp.

Sweet spot (according to this poster, as well as a lot of other people) of the SR line is the 225.

I have them, and you would not be disappointed with them for sure.

+1

kayandjohn really knows his Grados (huge Grado fan), so good comparisons to read.

And note that other than the subbass issue he had with the CMOY, the differences between amps were not really significant to him. Grados are just not that hard to drive. You just want to make sure you are using a device that has a low enough output impedance. The only time I've heard a big difference was going from my Xonar DX to using a headphone amp with the DX, and it was because the DX does not have a headphone amp. So not a good impedance match up. If you want a headphone amp for 'em, get an E11K for under $100

 
With respect, "hard to drive" is not the issue ... and Grado's don't necessarily like low-impedance amps.  It's one of the reasons they get branded for harshness/tizziness and people recommend tube amps as a result.  It's not for the supposed warmth.
 
They will always crave current.  Hence, the issue with the CMoy.  That's the thing with current pulse capability in an amp.  Unlike voltage clipping, if the current desired by the headphone is not available in the amp, you simply don't hear those frequencies.  You'll never know what you're not hearing until you pair the headphone with a good amp.  A decent amp pairing, or one that's "good enough" is relatively easy. There are a lot of things that go into making a great pairing, though. 

 

[cel4145]

With respect, "hard to drive" is not the issue ... and Grado's don't necessarily like low-impedance amps.  It's one of the reasons they get branded for harshness/tizziness and people recommend tube amps as a result.  It's not for the supposed warmth.

They will always crave current.  Hence, the issue with the CMoy.  That's the thing with current pulse capability in an amp.  Unlike voltage clipping, if the current desired by the headphone is not available in the amp, you simply don't hear those frequencies.  You'll never know what you're not hearing until you pair the headphone with a good amp.  A decent amp pairing, or one that's "good enough" is relatively easy. There are a lot of things that go into making a great pairing, though. 

Grados are 32 ohm, 98db sensitivity. They don't crave current that badly. Try my HE-400s. Those babies want current!