Fixing wow on new turntable?

[ryangs]

I recently acquired a nice-looking Yamaha P-220 turntable for $8. It's belt-drive, semi-automatic. It has two problems that are bugging me that I hope I can correct:

1) There is a barely noticable wow during playback. Having listened to certain albums enough on CD, I can pick out the slight warbles in pitch pretty easily when I play them from vinyl on this turntable. What are the common causes of wow? Bad belt? Something not set up correctly? (I believe I set the tracking force and etc. properly, but you never know...)

2) The oil-damped arm-dropping mechanism isn't smooth anymore. Instead of lowing the arm gently onto the record, it drops like a rock. Is this something I can easily refill or otherwise fix?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[ashpool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryangs 1) There is a barely noticable wow during playback. Having listened to certain albums enough on CD, I can pick out the slight warbles in pitch pretty easily when I play them from vinyl on this turntable. What are the common causes of wow? Bad belt? Something not set up correctly? (I believe I set the tracking force and etc. properly, but you never know...)

Hopefully, the belt is just worn out and needs to be replaced. If that doesn't fix it, the subplatter may be out-of-round, and there's not really anything you can do about that, other than getting a replacement subplatter. Another very possible issue is that some of your records may be slightly warped. If you hear pitch variation with everything, however, it's probably not a problem with your records.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryangs 2) The oil-damped arm-dropping mechanism isn't smooth anymore. Instead of lowing the arm gently onto the record, it drops like a rock. Is this something I can easily refill or otherwise fix?

I'm not familiar with this turntable so I can't tell you how to fix it, but this is really bad for the suspension on your cartridge. Until you fix the arm-dropping mechanism, I would recommend gently lowering the arm by hand.

 

[fran]

Most likely the wow is due to the belt. First step is to take off the belt and clean it with some white spirit/turpentine. You will be amazed how much crap comes off. Next do the same for both the pulleys. Refit the belt and listen again.

If theres still wow, (and even if there isn't) check the state of the main bearing for oil - make sure it isn't dry (very possible) - a gear oil like EP90 will work nicely. Be careful if you decide to clean out the main bearing (a good idea), there most likely will be a small ball bearing loose at the bottom of the shaft - don't throw it out! If the wow is still there, then replace the belt. If its still not right, then its either the motor or power supply to it (least likely).

The arm drop mech uses a silicone oil as a dampener. Oil flows through a small hole allowing the arm to drop slowly (on most arms anyway). Refill kits are available on ebay, you may just have to take it all apart, clean it up and refill with oil. In the meantime just cue it yourself, not really a great idea to drop the needle hard onto the surface.

hope this helps,
Fran

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fran Most likely the wow is due to the belt. First step is to take off the belt and clean it with some white spirit/turpentine.

I'd recommend something less agressive, especially on an old belt - some fluid-soap-, shampoo-, dish-cleaner-like stuff should do the job and not dry out the belt that much...

ryangs: I'd recommend to watch the record on the table, while relistening for the wow. Maybe it just happens, if the arm wobbles along over a wobbly record - then you could try a record clamp.

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[ryangs]

Thanks for the tips so far! I popped the platter off and cleaned off the belt (and everything it touches) with some cotton balls, swabs, and rubbing alcohol. A lot of black crap came off!

And I think it did some good! I don't hear as much pitch shifting as I used to. I need to clarify, when I say "wow," it's not a very fast wow, certainly not fast enough to be caused by the subplatter being out-of-round. It's very slow, very subtle, and doesn't happen at a regular interval. It's so subtle that others think I'm imagining it, but the slight, short changes in pitch really stand out to my ears.

I'll have to order some silicone oil for the cueing mechanism... www.turntablebasics.com has it for $10/bottle. They also have new belts for only $10, which seems like a good price. I may pick up one up just to have a spare.

They also have a carbon fiber brush for $10... I need to buy something to clean my records before listening... do you all recommend a dry solution like their carbon fiber brush, or something wet like the ubiquitous Discwasher D4?

Fran, I'll be sure to check the main bearing oil when I open it all up to refill the cueing oil.

 

[ashpool]

Good to hear the belt cleaning helped (I had totally forgotten about the belt and the bearing).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryangs They also have a carbon fiber brush for $10... I need to buy something to clean my records before listening... do you all recommend a dry solution like their carbon fiber brush, or something wet like the ubiquitous Discwasher D4?

A carbon fiber brush only helps to remove big pieces of debris. It's definitely useful, but if you have any old/used vinyl in your collection, it's going to have all sorts of dust and mold in the grooves that you won't be able to remove with a dry brush.

The Discwasher D4 brush will work, but in my experience, it's not that great. It's a little awkward to use and takes a couple tries to really clean your vinyl. I've found that Disk Doctor brushes are much better for really cleaning out record grooves.

 

[bigshot]

Sounds like your belt is rotting. I'd order a new one.

See ya
Steve

 

[Torm]

Never tried this myself - but many years ago i read in a hifi mag that they suggested replacing old belts (that you couldnt find a replacement for) by making a belt out of audio tape band. Their argument was that the audio tape band was extremely flat and sometimes would even make an improvement over the original belts.

 

[fran]

On the cleaning front:

The most effective way to clean is to use a wet/vacuum system. But they are expensive to buy, min $300 off ebay I would say unless you're lucky. You can make them fairly handy if you have the skills, time and facilities. After that its a case of take your pick. Theres the disc doctor system, and allsop do a system too, each <$100. Just have to search around and root about on some of the forums to get a recommendation. BTW the brushes are good for removing dust and the like, but its bacteria and fungi growing down in the grooves is what causes the pops and crackles. Also be aware that although in my experience the wet/vacuum system gives excellent results there are lps that just won't clean up.

On the belt front:

Tape will work well... splice it to exactly the right length and it'll drive the TT very well.... BUT there are a few things to know. One is that it is not a success on suspended tables ala linn thorens etc. the belt won't flex with the subchassis and falls off etc. Tape won't work with decks that auto change the speed, ie use a mech to go from 33.3 to 45 - unlikely the tape would survive riding from one pulley to the other - in fact since there is no stretch in tape at all, you won't be able to use it for 45 and 33.3 since the 33.3 will be a smaller pulley and whichever way you make the tape it will either be too big for 33 or too small for 45. It is ideally suited to TTs where a separate standalone motor pod drives around the outside of the whole platter.

Belts for most machines are available from http://www.vintage-electronics.net. He's a decent fella and is very cheap. And when you get the new belt you want to clean it too as you did with the old one.

Fran

 

[bigshot]

You can get turntable belts for any model. They're all there on the internet. Measure the belt that is on it now and do some web searching. Try www.garage-a-records.com. If they don't have it, you can find a belt at an electronics parts store online. I just got a belt for a Sony Umatic 3/4 inch machine. If you can get belts for a dinosaur like that, you can get belts for anything.

See ya
Steve

 

[ryangs]

Well, I have a different option now:

There's a guy selling his Technics SL-220 in the paper for $40, with new belt and stylus. It has pitch controls, which my Yamaha doesn't. I wondier if it's not even worth putting the $20+ into my Yamaha for a new belt and the damping fluid when I can just get this nicer Technics for $40 (or less, if I talk him down).

 

[memepool]

The SL-220 was a budget Technics model but it's probably still better than your Yamaha. Go for it.

 

[ryangs]

Yeah, I ended up getting it. I could tell that while it's definitely still a lower-end model, it's much nicer than the Yamaha. The tonearm looks like a better design, and it moves much more fluidly. Plus, the cue damping works.

The brand new belt and stylus also made it a winner, especially when I talked him down to $35. It would have cost me at least that much to get the Yamaha in an equivalent shape.

Thanks for all the helpful advice, everyone! Now it's time to go listen to my new toy...