Fiio M9 with Kunlun E18 OTG? (Newbie Question)
Jul 30, 2020 at 1:59 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 5

jayteeare

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I recently got a Fiio E18 Kunlun which as we know were specifically made to cater to the Android user audiophile. With the Fiio M9 DAP being Android based, I decided to marry the two together. Im using the Fiio special cable for OTG micro usb - to USB-C to take advantage of the control buttons on the E18 to control the M9; however, by connecting the Fiio by way of OTG instead of the Input 3.5mm jack, am I in fact bypassing the Fiio M9's audio features since the E18 acts as a DAC? When connected this way, is the digital from the Fiio being DAC'ed by the E18, and what Im hearing isnt actually the M9's features, but rather that of the E18?

Would this be kind of a nonsense combination, as the Fiio M9 built in DAC is superior to the E18's by several years, thus defeating the purpose of using it as a OTG, when if anything, I should be using the E18 strictly as a headphone amplifier?
 
Aug 1, 2020 at 6:51 PM Post #2 of 5
am I in fact bypassing the Fiio M9's audio features since the E18 acts as a DAC?
Yes.
You can also look at the colors of the led lights. The first dot shows that, the next three are showing battery level. When its pure red its working only as amplifier. When its purple (kind of, not pure red), then the DAC is active.

When connected this way, is the digital from the Fiio being DAC'ed by the E18, and what Im hearing isnt actually the M9's features, but rather that of the E18?
Yes.
That way the M9 is only playing the files. What you hear is the E18 DAC.
If you want to use the M9 DAC, need to connect the 3.5mm from the bottom of the M9 to the 3.5mm input of the E18, which is on the top of it. Then the E18 will work only as amplifier.

Would this be kind of a nonsense combination, as the Fiio M9 built in DAC is superior to the E18's by several years,
This is subjective, depends on your taste. Overall the DAC in the M9 is better, however it has smooth sound of the AKM dacs. E18 has Texas instruments DAC in it, has sharper sound. Depends on your headphones as well if you will be able to hear difference.
The E18 is max 96khz however, keep in mind. If you are playing 192khz files or more. Doesnt support DSD as well.

Normally in the E18 box package there is 3.5mm to 3.5mm short cable. Try both combinations, when E18 dac is used, and when M9. You can also look and try the different filter settings on the M9.
 
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Aug 1, 2020 at 9:30 PM Post #3 of 5
I appreciate your response. I’m using the Sennheiser IE40 earphones which are also the only earphones I’ve ever tried considered “audiophile” level; previously only had experience with Apple AirPods first gen, and the wired EarPods that came with iPhone.

I have tried both ways, using the E18 as a DAC and as an amplifier; honestly they both sound relatively the same.

What specs are considered to determine the M9 dap DAC is superior to the E18 which apparently came out many years before? And is it common to combine high level DAPS, for example Fiio, Astel &kern Sony with other DACs, or even with a headphone amplifier? Or is it just purely subjective?

The only time I can say I’ve heard a difference in amp “colorizations” was when trying out the Fiio E0K7 vs the Xtreme Pro Headphone Amplifier M1; surprisingly the M1 even though feeling cheaper in the hand, with no LED screen and just a volume knob with a gain and bass switch sounded so much better than the Fiio Andes. Even with the Fiio Andes had more settings for gain treble bass etc, amazingly the cheap feeling M1 was to me, superior in every way. And being new at this hobby, I can’t even express why or how it was better; it’s like with the M1 there was so much nuance and so much of the song communicated, even with the volume turned up past 5 didn’t hurt or feel uncomfortable; it just felt like listening to music in an entirely additional way audibly than I had ever considered could be possible.
 
Aug 2, 2020 at 1:38 AM Post #4 of 5
is it common to combine high level DAPS, for example Fiio, Astel &kern Sony with other DACs, or even with a headphone amplifier?
Well, there are much more experienced users in the forum here. I mean, what i will write is from my point of view on things.

You can combine everything, its not a problem. The main purpose of combining is the lack of power from the Dap s for powering high impedance headphones. Full sized headphones usually need a separate amplifier for getting their full potential. Lately the manufacturers are trying to solve this "problem" with the portable gear by.... if you look another Fiio players for example, X7, X7mk II, you will see they have amplifier modules you can buy as well. Different and more powerful ones. Other companies also have switchable amplifier modules for their Dap s. This is for to eliminate the need of separated amplifier device.

Regarding the devices and the sound, the difference in how you hear the music and its coloration comes mostly from the amplifier and the amplifying circuit inside. Dac chips themselves mostly sound the same, the difference between the dac chips is minimal. You can try switching the filters on the M9. Sharp roll off, slow roll off and what were the others.... so thats about the difference that you will hear between dac chips from different manufacturers. There is, but its minimal. Much bigger impact comes from the amplifier circuit used. In general slow roll off filter is how the AKM dacs sound, while Texas instruments, ESS are more like the sharp roll off one. On the M9 sharp roll off will sound closest to E18.
For example if you want to compare only the dac chips, on the E18 need to be used the bottom coaxial output. Then the amplifier circuit of the E18 is bypassed (that is equal to using the M9 with Fiio OTG cable like you did). Not that you need to do that, just if someday curious, you can try. But then you will need another device to receive signal from the E18 coaxial output.

The E18 sound is little bit more bright than natural, the higher frequencies receive somewhat +1 2 db boost. This is from its amplifying circuit inside. Another amplifier will have something different. Meybe more bass for example. And this is why the manufacturers have more than just one amplifier module for their dap s for example. And this is why they say it changes the sound color little bit. What will please a person more is difficult to be said, this is why most people will say you need to hear the things yourself before buying. That goes for headphones and all kind of audio devices.

If you want to read more about how sound is described, look at this topic: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/describing-sound-a-glossary.220770/#post-2673350

How old the device is doesnt matter that much. Generally is believed the new stuff is better, because all manufacturers are trying to improve their devices and release new ones that are better. But because different people like different sound....there is no guarantee that new device will please all. You can find people with old Sony walkmans that just dont want change it with anything new.

You can also use equaliser to change the sound as you like. Overall there are many reasons on why you would want to combine devices, but in general with the portable dap s is the lack of power for full sized headphones.

Most difference in sound you will hear with the different headphones however. You can try one pair, then another with the same amplifier and DAC, and be completely amazed how different the sound is. So because this, i would say headphones are most important, then next most important is the amplifier ( it will give you different coloration and more power usually sounds better ) and the last with the minimal difference is the Dac used.

Hope this helps somewhat.
 
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Aug 2, 2020 at 9:35 PM Post #5 of 5
Wow, this was such a great response. You’ve me helped understand a lot things that I’ve been missing from the big picture.

I appreciate you taking the time; I hope this post will become a great google landing spot for people starting out like me.
 

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