[bigshot]

Could the volume level people generally play heavy metal music have something to do with the type of driver that is recommended? Metal drivers might be more recommended because of durability under high volume situations, not the way it actually sounds.

 

[gregorio]

[1] By responding harmoniously - I'm meaning the whole harmonic content of the instruments sound is being faithfully reproduced by the driver in both amplitude and phase - without attenuation of any part of the harmonic spectrum.
[2] Steel guitar,silver strings, Dunlop 6P steel guitar pick, tungsten carbide slide. Baroque Harsichord and virginal - metal strings over metal reinforced hardwood soundboard, metal plectrum [ commonly made of tin, up to the 19th century when harpsichord plectrums started to be made from celluloid or nylon]. Vibraphone, glockenspiel, tubular Bells, church bells for god's sake, Anvil [ yes, anvil. You can hear it in Verdi's, Il trovatore. The Anvil also makes an appearance in Wagner's Das Rheingold] Oboe, Clarion, Bombarde and Trompeta stops on a pipe organ. And that list is just off the top of my head.
[3] But not as bad as your Reductio ad absurdum.

1. If you're talking about faithfully reproducing the whole harmonic content of all instruments, voices, etc., then obviously one would want a flat response, NOT a (metallic) harmonious response.

2. Most of those instruments do NOT have ONLY metallic components in their sound. Vibes, Glocks and Tubular bells are not played with metal beaters. A harpsichord has a wooden shell/soundboard. I've never seen an Oboe with a metal body. In Das Rheingold and Il Travatore do you only care about those brief appearances of the anvil being "harmoniously" reproduced and don't care that the rest of the performance will have metallic acoustic properties applied? Even instruments which are entirely metallic are recorded in rooms/spaces which contain acoustic properties of the materials in those spaces. For example, by definition, don't church bells have to be in a church? I've never seen an entirely metal church, for god sake! Your logic makes no sense, there are no commercial recordings which contain ONLY metallic acoustic properties and those properties which are not metallic will be made to sound metallic (according to your logic) by a metal driver.

3. Agreed, applying your logic to drivers does indeed result in complete absurdity!

In addition to the fact that no recordings contain only metallic acoustic properties, the response (absorption, reflection and resonance) of metal doesn't just depend on the fact that it is metal but on the shape, size and thickness of the metal and how and what the metal is connected to. This has been both known and employed in music production for decades, just listen to the difference between spring and plate reverbs for example. So even if there were recordings with only metallic acoustic properties and even if a metal driver could be designed to respond with metallic harmonics/properties, still they would not be the same harmonic/properties as on the recordings! I'm sorry but your assertion just doesn't make any sense, at a number of different levels.

G

 

[Digitalis]

1. If you're talking about faithfully reproducing the whole harmonic content of all instruments, voices, etc., then obviously one would want a flat response, NOT a (metallic) harmonious response.

No single driver provides uniformly flat response over the entire 10hz~20khz frequency range, though due to rigidity and low moving mass metal drivers in some headphones and IEMs come very close to accomplishing this. The reasons for metal being used in them may well have more to do with the higher tolerance requirements in driver design being easier to archive with metal components, rather than any acoustic benefit.

2. Most of those instruments do NOT have ONLY metallic components in their sound. Vibes, Glocks and Tubular bells are not played with metal beaters. A harpsichord has a wooden shell/soundboard. I've never seen an Oboe with a metal body. In Das Rheingold and Il Travatore do you only care about those brief appearances of the anvil being "harmoniously" reproduced and don't care that the rest of the performance will have metallic acoustic properties applied? Even instruments which are entirely metallic are recorded in rooms/spaces which contain acoustic properties of the materials in those spaces. For example, by definition, don't church bells have to be in a church? I've never seen an entirely metal church, for god sake! Your logic makes no sense, there are no commercial recordings which contain ONLY metallic acoustic properties and those properties which are not metallic will be made to sound metallic (according to your logic) by a metal driver.

Congratulations on achieving this height of hyperbole, a metal church - who could have thought of such a thing! I stand in awe.

Also despite the fact that you have never seen (or played) a metal oboe, they do exist - and play quite well. Vibraphones,glockenspiels and tubular bells can be played with metal sticks and mallets - this produces a markedly different attack to the note and the resulting harmonic structure of the note has stronger upper partials than when they are struck with a felt or rubber mallet. It is important to point out that the soundboard in a harpsichord is a resonator, it isn't the generator of the sound wave, the soundboard does influence the harmonic content depending on the materials it is made of, but only to attenuate certain ranges of the harmonic spectrum. Also he room treatments in recording studios are, by design as acoustically damped as possible and instruments are often very close to the mic, or equipped with metal or piezoelectric pickups and directly connected to recording electronics - which is intended to remove if not eliminate the room presence in the recording.

3. Agreed, applying your logic to drivers does indeed result in complete absurdity!

In addition to the fact that no recordings contain only metallic acoustic properties, the response (absorption, reflection and resonance) of metal doesn't just depend on the fact that it is metal but on the shape, size and thickness of the metal and how and what the metal is connected to. This has been both known and employed in music production for decades, just listen to the difference between spring and plate reverbs for example. So even if there were recordings with only metallic acoustic properties and even if a metal driver could be designed to respond with metallic harmonics/properties, still they would not be the same harmonic/properties as on the recordings! I'm sorry but your assertion just doesn't make any sense, at a number of different levels.

G

I agree, there is a great variety of instruments present in orchestral recordings not all of them will have the acoustic properties shaped by metals. Indeed the properties of the metals involved - their mechanical/structural aspects do produce distinct differences in how they sound. Curiously your assertion that a metal driver would reproduce sound differently than one made of paper or polymer is curious, are you suggesting there is no audible difference at all in driver materials? are you saying that despite the accuracy of current recording technologies none of them are truly accurate?

 

[gregorio]

@Digitalis Despite the fact you don't seem to know what a resonator does, how recording studios are designed and what Vibes, Glocks and Tubular bells are played with, you seem to be gradually coming around to the logical position that drivers are designed with rigidity, mass, durability and linearity in mind and that metal drivers are often a good choice for these reasons and nothing to do with a metallic acoustic/harmonic response.

G

 

[edstrelow]

Getting back to the original topic, the construction of Grados,, the Grado e-series uses new materials to dampen vibrations in the earcup housing. Quoting a couple of sales sources "proprietary polycarbonate," "a new polymer to better damp resonant distortion in the plastic housing" "Grado’s proprietary SpaceBlack Poly-carbonate was reengineered. This results in less resonance on the SR60e, SR80e, SR125e, SR225e, & SR325e which means you hear a clearer tone and reduction of secondary impulses."

This work by Grado is part of what looks to me like a new concern with getting rid of vibrations within the headphone structure, driven by the development of new materials and techniques.

I can't say how well this works but several other companies are following similar tracks, Audioquest, B&W and Sennheiser which has been using what it variously terms a "space age material," or "polymer" in the headband to dampen vibrations in its HD800 for a few years now.

"The metal headband is 'sandwiched' between several layers of resonance dampening polymers to eliminate unwanted vibrations from being transmitted to the headphone mountings and ear cups."

I would imagine that Senn is also using this technique with its latest ultra expensive electrostatic, but I don't know that for a fact.

If you query using damping materials in a headband, look at Keith Howard who did the measurements of mechanical cross-talk between earcups through headbands. See p26 of this http://www.politicalavenue.com/108642/US-MAGAZINES/Hi-Fi News - July 2016.pdf in HiFi News and Record Review.

I have been working with sorbothane (also a polymer) myself not as a footer as it has been traditionally used, but applied directly to headphone earcups and headbands. I show how I have managed to vastly improve the sound of several Stax phones (I am not exaggerating) and others have had similar results with other phones.

The best results I have got are with thicker (1/4-1/2 ") denser (70 duro sorbothane cut in small pieces and properly glued to whatever surface you apply it. Commercial self-stick Sorb is good, Lord 7650 adhesive is better but very expensive.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/d...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/