DROP + THX Panda Announcement
Jul 3, 2020 at 3:43 AM Post #421 of 767
Could you guys go to Android Developer Options and checking which codec options are available when connected to the Panda. Is Adaptive Aptx there or Aptx-LL?
 
Jul 3, 2020 at 11:58 AM Post #422 of 767
Could you guys go to Android Developer Options and checking which codec options are available when connected to the Panda. Is Adaptive Aptx there or Aptx-LL?

On my v30 (Android 9)
SBC, AAC, aptX, aptx HD, LDAC. Also an option for “Enable Optional Codecs”
 
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Jul 3, 2020 at 12:22 PM Post #423 of 767
So neither Adaptive or Low Latency mode.

With its Quallcomm QCC5124 chipset it should have adaptive aptx (not LL)

I guess the device firmware is still in alpha since Adaptive aptx is not available.

Screenshot_20200703-192554888 (1).jpg
 
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Jul 3, 2020 at 12:53 PM Post #425 of 767
I don't have a Panda but my Asus Zenfone 6 (Android 10, Snapdragon 855) shows these bluetooth codecs as available:
Screenshot_20200703-182703992_1.jpg
I guess Qualcomm dropped the aptX-LL even from the chipset's drivers.
Interesting. I wonder why I don’t see Adaptive audio on my v30. Maybe because I am on Android 9
 
Jul 3, 2020 at 1:19 PM Post #426 of 767
Could you guys go to Android Developer Options and checking which codec options are available when connected to the Panda. Is Adaptive Aptx there or Aptx-LL?


Received mine a couple days ago; pics and thoughts coming. Played a few songs wirelessly before burning 'em in for about 35 hours (wired) so far.

Paired via bluetooth with a DX150 and Oneplus 7 Pro but both connections default to LDAC. Neither shows aptx LL in developer options but the Oneplus shows aptx adaptive which supposed to replace it anyway. However, I found out the 7 Pro still has issues with aptx adaptive and the only LDAC quality option that works (which it also defaults to) is Best Effort (Adaptive Bit Rate). Also can't change to a lower codec: neither regular aptx nor HD works after selecting them; always defaults back to LDAC.

On the DX150 I can successfully change LDAC quality but Optimized is only useful within inches of the player.

Perhaps the Panda defaults to the max quality codec on the paired device but hoping the upcoming app has some options there or at least will show which codec is in use.

Sample rates can be changed though. Hard to tell if any audible change but doubt there's any way to get bit-perfect via bluetooth yet. Tried UAPP but the Panda's volume control didn't work with it.
 
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Jul 3, 2020 at 3:50 PM Post #427 of 767
Interesting. I wonder why I don’t see Adaptive audio on my v30. Maybe because I am on Android 9

Aptx Adaptive isn't available on that many phones I'm afraid.


https://www.aptx.com/product-listing?aptx_type=336

Also about the APTX LL...

Screenshot_20200703-215251.jpg

Just what I thought since the Panda is using a newer Qualcomm chipset, The supposed replacement of APTX LL is mostly a dead codec, there's barely any source devices that uses it, nor is there any BT transmitters that supports it. Despite all that Qualcomm claims it can replace APTX LL.

Hopefully LC3/LC3 Plus will replace Qualcomms crappy polices since they are both standard codecs.
 
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Jul 3, 2020 at 5:20 PM Post #428 of 767
Aptx Adaptive isn't available on that many phones I'm afraid.


https://www.aptx.com/product-listing?aptx_type=336

Also about the APTX LL...

Screenshot_20200703-215251.jpg

Just what I thought since the Panda is using a newer Qualcomm chipset, The supposed replacement of APTX LL is mostly a dead codec, there's barely any source devices that uses it, nor is there any BT transmitters that supports it. Despite all that Qualcomm claims it can replace APTX LL.

Hopefully LC3/LC3 Plus will replace Qualcomms crappy polices since they are both standard codecs.

Thanks - that link on aptX Adaptive is very informative and will help people who are wondering about whether their device will be compatible with aptx Adaptive.

To save people time, the short answer is probably no...
 
Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Post #431 of 767
By the way, any opinions about aptX Adaptive vs LDAC? Why not just use LDAC as it is more broadly supported (at least in the Android e system)...?


Aptx Adaptive is the ONLY codec that can currently handle HD audio with low latency. Perhaps only useful for watching blu-ray rips over bluetooth and alternating between HD audio and youtube videos with fewer issues.

LDAC is tough to beat for just audio though and Sony not charging fees for it helps.

But there may be too many codecs plus Qualcomm demands licensing fees. Just as aptx was taking off, here comes HD, then LL, and now Adaptive. Worse, there are actually TWO different versions of aptx Adaptive!! How bad is that when most of us can't even use the 1st version yet?

https://www.androidauthority.com/aptx-voice-bluetooth-call-quality-1056511/
"aptX Voice is part of the second revision of Qualcomm’s aptX Adaptive codec. This update will also bring support for hi-res music playback over Bluetooth. aptX Adaptive r2 supports 24-bit 96kHz audio files by extending the codec’s bit-rate above 600kbps. Currently, aptX Adaptive caps out at 420kbps for 16-bit 48kHz quality. This is undoubtedly a welcome addition for the audiophile community, although there will probably be a little wait for headphones sporting the updated technology.

Qualcomm’s latest aptX improvements require new hardware. Currently, Qualcomm’s Fast Connect 6800 chip supports aptX Voice..."


AFAIK, iFi's Zen bluetooth DAC is among the few claiming to support aptx Adaptive but I assume only on the receiving end.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-blue/
 
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Jul 4, 2020 at 1:42 AM Post #432 of 767
Aptx Adaptive is the ONLY codec that can currently handle HD audio with low latency. Perhaps only useful for watching blu-ray rips over bluetooth and alternating between HD audio and youtube videos with fewer issues.

LDAC is tough to beat for just audio though and Sony not charging fees for it helps.

But there may be too many codecs plus Qualcomm demands licensing fees. Just as aptx was taking off, here comes HD, then LL, and now Adaptive. Worse, there are actually TWO different versions of aptx Adaptive!! How bad is that when most of us can't even use the 1st version yet?

https://www.androidauthority.com/aptx-voice-bluetooth-call-quality-1056511/
"aptX Voice is part of the second revision of Qualcomm’s aptX Adaptive codec. This update will also bring support for hi-res music playback over Bluetooth. aptX Adaptive r2 supports 24-bit 96kHz audio files by extending the codec’s bit-rate above 600kbps. Currently, aptX Adaptive caps out at 420kbps for 16-bit 48kHz quality. This is undoubtedly a welcome addition for the audiophile community, although there will probably be a little wait for headphones sporting the updated technology.

Qualcomm’s latest aptX improvements require new hardware. Currently, Qualcomm’s Fast Connect 6800 chip supports aptX Voice..."


AFAIK, iFi's Zen bluetooth DAC is among the few claiming to support aptx Adaptive but I assume only on the receiving end.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-blue/
Thanks! Yeah, I should have made my question clearer. For me only audio matters as I don’t use any wireless for video. But I understand how that could be important for other people!
 
Jul 4, 2020 at 2:29 AM Post #433 of 767
Thanks! Yeah, I should have made my question clearer. For me only audio matters as I don’t use any wireless for video. But I understand how that could be important for other people!
For audio, only LDAC matters at the moment and when using at least the 660Kbps option. However, as stated before, LDAC mostly falls back to 330Kbps in which case aptX-HD is better (lower noise floor, better upper frequency extension). You have to force the 990Kbps option in Android's dev settings but then the connection becomes more sensitive to interference.
Panda on the receiving end shouldn't have much trouble but the smartphone/dap on the other end is the limiting factor (antennae implementation, chipset used, bluetooth software stack etc).

Here are some useful links on the matter:

https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/

https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/

The best we can get with bluetooth right now is (almost) "CD quality":grimacing:
 
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Jul 4, 2020 at 11:43 AM Post #434 of 767
For audio, only LDAC matters at the moment and when using at least the 660Kbps option. However, as stated before, LDAC mostly falls back to 330Kbps in which case aptX-HD is better (lower noise floor, better upper frequency extension). You have to force the 990Kbps option in Android's dev settings but then the connection becomes more sensitive to interference.
Panda on the receiving end shouldn't have much trouble but the smartphone/dap on the other end is the limiting factor (antennae implementation, chipset used, bluetooth software stack etc).

Here are some useful links on the matter:

https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/

https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/

The best we can get with bluetooth right now is (almost) "CD quality":grimacing:
Thanks!
 
Jul 4, 2020 at 8:08 PM Post #435 of 767
We're waiting on updates from Qualcomm, we had LL working as mentioned but we can't do much about Qualcomm pulling support to revise and roll out new updates.

Once Qualcomm delivers new libraries we should be able to update the firmware and restore functionality for whatever they decide to use as their low latency standard.
 

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