downsampling to 44.1KHz and other recording questions

[Autochthon]

The hardware is purchased, setup and apparently works. Now it time to do the real work - The album transfers. This will be extremely time consuming so I'd like to do it right the first time. Hardware: turntable -> integrated tube amp -> E-MU 0404 USB -> recording software (Audacity? Cubase LE? WaveLab Lite? Sonar LE? ??)

With plenty of drive space my first thought is to record everything at the highest possible resolution (96KHz/32) then down-sample to 44.1KHz/16 if I need a CD. I believe someone elsewhere mentioned I'd be having sound quality issues with my down-sampled files if I do this. Are there any pitfalls with down-sampling?

Any recommendations on relatively simple software with the ability to edit out scratches etc.? I had planned on using Audacity but I've notice I am only able to use MME drivers will not having ASIO drivers be a problem? Also Audacity records in a unique format which can then be exported into other, more common formats for play on standard players. Is that a problem?

Feel free to direct me to a more appropriate forum if this is outside the pale.

thanks

 

[nelamvr6]

I record at 96k/32b and then make flac files for use with my Squeezebox. The sound is stellar.

The software I use is Adobe Audition 2.0. It has everything I need, and the de-clicking utility is pretty good. But it is a little pricy, to the north of $300. I'm sure there are cheaper solutions out there.

I have heard that if you downsample to 44.1k, you could encounter sq problems if you're not originally recording at 88.2k. I haven't experienced any problems myself. But then again, most of the tracks I downsample are for use on my DAP, so they may go unnoticed.

 

[jiiteepee]

For SRC and dithering, the Voxengo r8brain (free) is the best freeware converter you can find. You can even batch convert w/ it.

Quote:

This program can be used for performing sample rate conversion of the WAV files. r8brain supports uncompressed WAV files of bit depths 8, 16, 24, 32 and 64. 32 and 64 bit files can be in IEEE floating sample format. Writing is possible in 8, 16, 24, 32 and 64 bit depths. 32 and 64 bit depth output is in IEEE floating sample format. 8-, 16- and 24 bit output is dithered with a gaussian noise and a slight noise-shaping.

Also, some SRC software comparisons: http://src.infinitewave.ca/


For recording, I wouldn't use softwere like Sonar/Cubase but rather WaveLab or some other ASIO capable audio edititing software. 24-bit(32f)/96kHz is good recording 'resolution' but remember check out if the SRC/dithering software supports this 'resolution'.

jiitee

 

[pingalep]

i don' understand one thing.
are you speaking about ripping your cds on pc, to listen with your pc as a trasport setup, or mastering your own music recorded by you using the line-in of your soundcard?

upsampling from 16bit to 20or 24 is not necessary, cause the ripped file results bigger, but this sampling can be done on the fly by your dac or your music player software.

the best for ripping is EAC, configured for your own optical drive.

if i've completely missed the question, erase all!

 

[jiiteepee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autochthon /img/forum/go_quote.gif The hardware is purchased, setup and apparently works. Now it time to do the real work - The album transfers. This will be extremely time consuming so I'd like to do it right the first time. Hardware: turntable -> integrated tube amp -> E-MU 0404 USB -> recording software (Audacity? Cubase LE? WaveLab Lite? Sonar LE? ??)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingalep /img/forum/go_quote.gif i don' understand one thing. are you speaking about ripping your cds on pc, to listen with your pc as a trasport setup, or mastering your own music recorded by you using the line-in of your soundcard? ...

Maybe you read too fast ...

jiitee

 

[pingalep]

english is not my native language! for italian speaking people, it's called "giradischi", and litteraly it could be said turndisc! i am so sorry, but now also very interested cause a friend of mine has the same problem(and he's thinking to solve by using that turntables with direct usb out.....so i'll take him any good alternative i'll read on!)
ok i won't write anymore! only reading!

 

[nelamvr6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingalep /img/forum/go_quote.gif english is not my native language! for italian speaking people, it's called "giradischi", and litteraly it could be said turndisc! i am so sorry, but now also very interested cause a friend of mine has the same problem(and he's thinking to solve by using that turntables with direct usb out.....so i'll take him any good alternative i'll read on!) ok i won't write anymore! only reading!

The turntables with usb out are a good solution if you don't care at all about sound quality!

They work, but they will definitely provide a lot worse sound than a quality turntable/sound card/software/de-clicking will provide.

Like a lot of things, the harder solution will provide a lot more benefits than the easy way out I'm afraid.

 

[Autochthon]

Nice to know this technique can produce clean transfers.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have WaveLab Lite and Kristal that use ASIO and Audacity 1.3 that doesn't but Audacity has loads of handy (and free) plugin filters. I'll tinker around with all 3 and see if I am going to be satisfied with one of the two ASIO enabled choices.

I'll need to read up on dithering. Is it a more sophisticated way to interpolate a high resolution signal to lower a resolution?

r8brain seems perfect for what I want. I'll just record everything at 32f/96Khz

 

[jiiteepee]

I suggest you to not use any filters when recording (realtime) so that the recorded data becomes processed !!!

You can then later make all necessary fixing (it takes maybe a bit more time but those filters just ruins the quality you're after if you don't be careful w/ those).

When I ripped my LP collection (~980 LP's), I recorded/cutted all using WaveLab and didn't do any filtering at all (all LPs are in excellent condition) --> just recorded to WAVs using 24-bit/96kHz
--> cutted to pieces and then converted everything to WMA CBR 24-bit/96 440kbps (or losless Q100 24-bit/96kHz)
--> tagging
--> burned these to CDs and saved copies to HDs.

If I now and then need to burn a std audio CD/mp3 CD from these, there are not much quality loss when convert 1st to 24/96 WAV and then use r8brain free for SRC/Dither to 16/44.1 (and convert to mp3 using CBR 224-320 @ 44.1).

There are couple different dithering algorithms used but, if you want those 'best ones' then you need to put some money on the counter desk.

'bout couple dithering methods and other documentation:
Quote:

Rectangular--basically white noise, and the least CPU-intensive, this type of dither is more audible than the Pow-r dither types, but works well with loud projects, or ones that use distortion. Pow-r 1--adds a fairly consistent amount of noise below 10k, then quickly increases. Good for compressed music with few quiet sections. Pow-r 2--adds a little less noise than Pow-r 1 until around 9k, then increases fairly rapidly. More CPU-intensive than Pow-r 1. Pow-r 3--adds the least amount of noise in the most audible range, then jumps up at about 8k and again above 10k. Good for classical music or any music that has a wide range of volume. Most CPU-intensive and transparent of all choices. etc. Comparison: http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/dither.htm Some more Dithering related links: http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dvdaudio/dither.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithering http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/ http://www.digido.com/modules.php?na...article&sid=14 http://www.mil-media.com/docs/articles/powr.shtml http://www.proaudioreview.com/october99/Weiss-web.shtml http://www.jamminpower.com/main/articles.jsp Some PDF documents: http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/dither.pdf http://www.rfel.com/download/W03008-...Converters.pdf http://www.users.qwest.net/~volt42/c...rExplained.pdf http://www.jamminpower.com/PDF/Whither%20Dither.jsp http://www.izotope.com/products/audi...eringGuide.pdf

jiitee

 

[infinitesymphony]

Where does the Apogee UV22 fit in?

What about the Waves IDR options?

 

[Autochthon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiiteepee /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suggest you to not use any filters when recording (realtime) so that the recorded data becomes processed !!!

No worries in that regard. I always record unadulterated source material then manipulate it after the fact. I would alter it the absolute minimum I could live with. Unfortunately a few of these albums go back 40+ years and I inherited then from folks who weren't always real careful. To be honest, I might be better served trying to find better quality replacements but I'll try transfer and declicking first and see how time consuming it is going to be.


Thank you for your efforts gathering these links. Very interesting information regarding dither I don't recall ever reading about that technique before but it makes perfect sense. Sounds like that in this instance you fool the pattern recognition abilities of the brain into recognizing a more continuous signal. I take it you feel the built in dither algorithm in r8brain will be good enough for most applications.

Is CBR lossless less CPU intensive than VBR? I had assumed VBR was already a variation on lossless compression.

My first impression is that the Wavelab recording interface is much better than the default Audacity one. More detailed feedback and control. Even if I use Audacity to edit out clicks I would probably use Wavelab for actual recording of the initial .wav files. I'm playing with Kristal now it appear quite nice also. I don't think I'll go wrong using either (Wavelab or Kristal) for recording.