Difficult for small companies to create super high end MP3 players?

Feb 11, 2005 at 6:00 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 13

MKAL

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I have seen a bunch of posts asking for suggestions for audiophile level MP3 players. Why don't small producers come up with souped up DAPs? There are tons of small audiophile brands focusing on high end home CD rigs, headohones, amps, etc. Why don't any individuals or companies move into the niche market of high end MP3 players? Is the research and development too cost prohibitive considering the product would probably only appeal to the audiophile group?
 
Feb 11, 2005 at 6:11 AM Post #2 of 13
it is an immense amount of work to make a dap i would assume, and I can't imagine coding audiophile level firmware is fun. Not to mention production costs are pretty huge if you're only making a small number of products.

What surprises me is that no one has hacked apart an mp3 player and built an integrated amp onto it
 
Feb 11, 2005 at 8:56 AM Post #3 of 13
well, there are some basic conflicts. portable means a compromise in components and audiophile isn't about compromise. plus viability. there aren't enough audiophiles to justify the cost of development and manufacture.
 
Feb 11, 2005 at 1:16 PM Post #4 of 13
I'd say because there are more sales to be had in the low end rather than the high end. I believe it's like that for pretty much everything. Companies would rather target for the 'mainstream' to bring in the cash flow.
 
Feb 11, 2005 at 3:03 PM Post #5 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by austonia
there aren't enough audiophiles to justify the cost of development and manufacture.


I disagree. Companies too often take the easy route - go cheap, rather than invest money to make a good product. Why its a low-risk preference.

But who is actually to say that the masses or some good portion of them will not like enjoy - and place a high value on - good sound quality? People staid starbucks was crazy to sell $3 coffee when everybody was selling $0.50 paintstripper. But it worked.

Now some of those people went down the upscale road becuase of marketing. But a lot of people were also exposed to quality coffee for the first time - and liked it.

If you dont show some ball, you dont win any medals. And few of these audio guys have ball, if you want to be honest. With some simple marketing and instruction even Joe Bloe could be made to hear the difference between a 128MB turd rip and a nice a good quality sound. Quality is addictive: once you can identify it, its hard to go back.

The market is RIPE for better sound quality right now. You have cheaper storage capacity and that means that high-bit rate or even lossless is possible on a mass level. But I doubt any of these guys will really try to exploit it. Thats what you get when both hardware and software ends of the msuic industry are controlled by bankers/lawyers and engineer. There is no dedication to music in that equation. None at all....
 
Feb 11, 2005 at 10:25 PM Post #6 of 13
Yes portable means making some omissions and trade offs in terms of ultimate sound. But there are things comapanies could do to improve part quality in MP3 players that wouldn't require a tradeoff in portability. In terms of the audiophile population being a small market and companies wanting to cater more to the masses. It is true that companies would want to focus their efforts on where the most profit lies. But taking the CD player realm for instance, there are countless companies that cater to the smaller market of audiophiles (Meridian, Wadia, Rotel, NAIM, Rega, etc.) Theoretically some smaller audiophile companies could sprout up similarly and focus on high end MP3 players. As another example, how many people could there be that buy ultimate ears, sensaphonics or etymotic products? These companies concentrate on the small market for high end canalphones and other such audio products. Is the research and development for these products not cost prohibitive while that of MP3 players is ?
 
Feb 11, 2005 at 10:37 PM Post #7 of 13
I'm almost positive that there is at least one small company out there that is doing exactly this... so we will just have to be patient.
cool.gif
 
Feb 12, 2005 at 2:27 AM Post #10 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by MKAL
Philodox, is this speculation or do you have some insider knowledge of which you cannot get into the details?


That second option... sorry I can't say more.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Feb 12, 2005 at 4:03 AM Post #11 of 13
I think it's due to the greater challenge / complexity involved, that most "audiophile" companies aren't up to the task of. Remember, esteemed as they are, the audiophile companies don't actually do much innovative or challenging design work. They buy their CD transports from someone else. They buy their power amp transformers from someone else. They buy someone else's vacuum tube, or they buy one of TI's DAC or opamp chips just like anyone else. They do the integration work, then dump it into some nice big, spacious chassis that's assumed to be fed an unlimited amount of power from the wall socket. They basically don't have nearly as many design constraints.

Imagine in contrast the portable DAP. Actual R&D is required. You can't use off-the-shelf parts and hope to be cost competitive. You have to devise your own compact power system. You have to devise a storage system. You have to come up with your own DAC. Who's going to do that? Can Wadia design its own custom DAC integrated circuit rather than relying on a burr brown product? Where is Linn with its lithium battery cell? When will we see Krell design a storage medium with an innovative new form factor? Probably never, which is when we'll portable audio devices from such players.

Well, I take that back. Once the rest of the industry has developed DACs and opamps and power cells that make "audiophile" portable players possible, *then* we will see these companies jumping into the ballgame using off-the-shelf parts combined into the package that you are looking for. Until then, you either have to deal with what's on the market, or you have to hope that one of the upscale divisions of the larger consumer manufacturers takes on the task. For example, Sony Qualia could do it.
 
Feb 12, 2005 at 4:09 AM Post #12 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oga
The market is RIPE for better sound quality right now.



I'm not to sure about that.
My friends don't appreciate the difference between my CM7s and thier iPod buds.

For people like that, (an I believe that is the majority) whats the point of expensive an dap/headphones.

(On the other hand they are blown away by my MS-2s, I just can't tell them the cost of my babies.)
 
Feb 12, 2005 at 5:28 PM Post #13 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by jhlbbs
Xin of SuperMacro fame is hinting that he will at some point in the future come out with one. No specifics known at the moment.


It doesnt look like Xin's project has been going anywhere for quite some time though... I wouldnt expect anything of this type from him any time soon.
 

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