computer usb audio is a great way to enjoy speaker sound again ... vs just iems/cans...anyone else?

[canali]

edited thread title:
finding nice speaker sound is luring me out of cans/iems..or at least wanting more balance.
 
my background:
for the last yr or so I was only into portable audio: cans and iems.
(sold off alot of my room ht 5.1 gear years back due to all the wires and such.)
 
over the past few months I've considered various options  to fill a need for some 'live 3d sound'
looked at various configurations: passive vs powered speakers, bluetooth, wls, mini systems etc
 
then i recently stumbled across some audioengine a5+ for a deal here locally (US$190) used but in great shape.
hooked them up yesterday to my laptop using my ifi micro as a dac, playing some of my ripped cds
and 24/192 flac files, all thru roon labs.
WOW.. the refreshing experience once again hearing quality music in the room from speakers vs just  thru cans or iems.
my friend (who once had a US$70k system) said there is nothing to replace quality, spacious 3d music in the room as from speakers.
i'd have to agree with him (for now)
 
so in short i'm finding computer audio is a fab way to get back into quality hifi/speaker sound without breaking the bank
us$190 audioengine a5+ speakers
us$40 for the desktop rubbery mats
us$80 for a subthis morning just acquired pioneer sw-8mk2 sub as my kitchen/desktop is small and i don't play loud)
i can use my mojo, dragonfly red or ifi micro as dacs.
 
sure it's not a super deluxe refined $$$$ system and yes i'll get back into building up a ht or 2.1,
but for now having live good quality music in my room from speakers is just sooooo wonderful 

 
wonder if i'm now moving away from cans and back to speakers....or maybe i just need more balance.
 
still love my cans/iems...when i want to crank it a bit more
i'll ensure 1/no one else is around if i'm using the speakers
or 2/ will just fit on the cans and iems and enjoy guilt free.

 
anyone else agree with me on this one?

 

[atarione]

see pic..I'm more a speakers guy than headphones honestly right now I have I'm listening >optical out onboard audio Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H> FiiO D3 > DarkVoice 336SE > Sony TA-N77ES > JBL L1's
 
using the DV as a pre for my 200WPC sony amp... sound is amazing.. setup was Cheap..because I'm lucky ~ish I guess
 
JBL L1's $40 estate sale
Sony ES amp (well stack actually pre, tape deck, tuner..etc) $75 1/2 day sale at GW.. incredible luck..
FiiO D3 $20~
DV336 $230~  (well plus $20 in tubes a NOS RCA 6NS7GT and RCA 6AS7G $10 ea~)
 
oh and $70~is for speaker stands..
 

 

[theveterans]

Nearfield computer speakers easily trump mid-fi headphones in my opinion. I don't listen to headphones anymore after getting that Yamaha speakers. They do not need a subwoofer at all since bass goes incredibly deep (30 Hz). Got them for 450 USD pair.
 

 

[PleasantSounds]

  Nearfield computer speakers easily trump mid-fi headphones in my opinion. I don't listen to headphones anymore after getting that Yamaha speakers. They do not need a subwoofer at all since bass goes incredibly deep (30 Hz). Got them for 450 USD pair.
 

 
These look like Yamaha HS7 or HS8. On these models the frequency response is ruler flat, but only down to 50Hz. They have an in-built high pass filter with cut off at that frequency. Yes, you'll get the 30Hz but at -20dB. Unless they are somehow modded?

 

[canali]

  Nearfield computer speakers easily trump mid-fi headphones in my opinion. I don't listen to headphones anymore after getting that Yamaha speakers. They do not need a subwoofer at all since bass goes incredibly deep (30 Hz). Got them for 450 USD pair.
 

 
i don't know what it is about the music....listening thru speakers vs cans....no wonder there is a push
out there to come out with new technologies that'll make the sound in our head to sound more dimensional
and speaker like...outside of our head.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
the refreshing experience once again hearing quality music in the room from speakers vs just  thru cans or iems.
my friend (who once had a US$70k system) said there is nothing to replace quality, spacious 3d music in the room as from speakers.
i'd have to agree with him (for now)
 
wonder if i'm now moving away from cans and back to speakers....or maybe i just need more balance.

 
The question really is whether one can use speakers. Headphones and IEMs are the alternative. In my case for example acoustics in my rooms were really just messed up and there was no room that can be dedicated solely for audio that I can line the walls with sound absorbing materials. On top of which even the speaker system in my car rarely gets used because the horrible gridlocks in Manila made driving myself a very rare situation (if the metro train breaks down I can get an Uber, if I can't get an Uber I can at least just hike across town; can't do that if I have to worry about leaving my car somewhere suspect that it gets broken into for its audio system or I get charged insane parking fees).
 
That considered I've already sketched out a floor plan for a house if I get a new one built (I really hate the area I'm in now anyway) that has a house with a dedicated audio room surrounded by an antechamber where I will keep CDs, DVDs, HDDs, etc, then double walls around the listening area. That room will be inside a library/office room that will occupy half the second floor, the goal being that 1) I wouldn't have noise from outside audible inside it with nothing playing while the walls around the audio system are all wood (external walls have to be concrete because of the monsoon) and 2) if I crank it up, no cranky busybody neighbor will complain. Ventilation is through an ultraquiet split A/C. As for the car, if I ever get one for daily driving or for getting groceries (and the necessary trips to the vet and groomer), no way I'm ever getting a Mazda as a daily driver. Why? Worst dashboard for audio systems due to the huge instrument cluster hump, same problem as with Porsches.
 
For now though I'm sticking with a headphone system and an IEM in the metro train or in Ubers.

 

[theveterans]

   
These look like Yamaha HS7 or HS8. On these models the frequency response is ruler flat, but only down to 50Hz. They have an in-built high pass filter with cut off at that frequency. Yes, you'll get the 30Hz but at -20dB. Unless they are somehow modded?

 
They're bone stock Yamaha HS7s.
 
I listen to 90 - 100 dbC peak SPL in DVD or HD Netflix movies (equal to some cinema theater peak SPL) and I do not feel that the deep bass is much less emphasized than the rest of the frequencies. This is with 2db less than flat in both room correction and high trim settings. IMO, the very deep bass that you hear on the movies (less the tactile transducers present on some cinemas) is incredibly reproduced, but with only 55W of RMS power (total bi-amps) (95W peak total), it won't win against an 8" sub in SPL and bass extension and impact of course. I don't know where you got the high-pass filter, but I don't think the bass is rolled off at 50 Hz (more like around 35 Hz with the HS7 from the YouTube frequency test). Then again, I'm just amazed at how low and loud the deep bass can go with the 6.5" drivers at cinema dbC SPL levels (trumps my AKG K712 and Sony MDR-1000X in bass extension easily).

 

[theveterans]

   
The question really is whether one can use speakers. Headphones and IEMs are the alternative. In my case for example acoustics in my rooms were really just messed up and there was no room that can be dedicated solely for audio that I can line the walls with sound absorbing materials. On top of which even the speaker system in my car rarely gets used because the horrible gridlocks in Manila made driving myself a very rare situation (if the metro train breaks down I can get an Uber, if I can't get an Uber I can at least just hike across town; can't do that if I have to worry about leaving my car somewhere suspect that it gets broken into for its audio system or I get charged insane parking fees).
 
That considered I've already sketched out a floor plan for a house if I get a new one built (I really hate the area I'm in now anyway) that has a house with a dedicated audio room surrounded by an antechamber where I will keep CDs, DVDs, HDDs, etc, then double walls around the listening area. That room will be inside a library/office room that will occupy half the second floor, the goal being that 1) I wouldn't have noise from outside audible inside it with nothing playing while the walls around the audio system are all wood (external walls have to be concrete because of the monsoon) and 2) if I crank it up, no cranky busybody neighbor will complain. Ventilation is through an ultraquiet split A/C. As for the car, if I ever get one for daily driving or for getting groceries (and the necessary trips to the vet and groomer), no way I'm ever getting a Mazda as a daily driver. Why? Worst dashboard for audio systems due to the huge instrument cluster hump, same problem as with Porsches.
 
For now though I'm sticking with a headphone system and an IEM in the metro train or in Ubers.

 
True. IMO, nearfield listening at 2.5" away from the drivers significantly reduces room acoustics. Anyways, this is about computer audio so I would assume that the speakers that are discussed are nearfield optimized. If I listen to my Yamaha speakers a lot further away, it would sound bass heavy due to proximity near the walls. Thankfully, the -2 db room correction significantly reduces the bass resonance when used nearfield. The -2 db high trim setting reduces treble hotness significantly when you're only 2.5" away from tweeter. However, the +2 db treble boost would be a lot better for a living room setup since you need more high frequency boost to compensate for speaker distance (shorter wavelengths). Optimizing a 2-channel floor standing speaker setup is far more laborious than optimizing 2-channel nearfield computer speakers since room acoustics are involved. Surprisingly, room acoustics don't seem to intervene much in a 5.1 speaker setup in my experience.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theveterans /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Optimizing a 2-channel floor standing speaker setup is far more laborious than optimizing 2-channel nearfield computer speakers since room acoustics are involved.

 

Thus the reason why I'm basically building a room around a pair of tower speakers. It doesn't need to be tailored for a specific pair, but the room needs to be large enough to have a large space to image the sound in, plus also have a lot of space between the speakers and the walls. And as for towers spcifically, the room also needs to have high ceilings, because I'd never know if I might at some point get the money for speakers that might not be far enough from the ceiling.

 

 

 

 

On top of that, I can't have any of those too-minimalist houses with narrow staircases. And I can't just order these online - I have to do it through a dealer so they'd have their own people haul it up. A chiropractor (or worse, ER and hospitalization) would be worse if I tried to haul them up narrow stairs that has a U-Turn halfway up by myself.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by theveterans /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Surprisingly, room acoustics don't seem to intervene much in a 5.1 speaker setup in my experience.

 

That's because of a lot of other differences. For starters, in a 5.1 system, you're using a receiver, which has a DSP chip. Using the automatic setup - ie, the one that has the Audyssey microphone - has the receiver setting up time alignment and EQ. On top of that, bass response issues are also a lot less of a problem even if you don't use the DSP tricks since you're more likely to have a subwoofer. Too strong? Reduce the gain on the plate amp. Can't hear it? Raise the gain. Loose bass? Cut the sub and the mains as low as you can without getting obvious distortion from the low cut off at the loudest level you'd listen.

 

[PleasantSounds]

   
They're bone stock Yamaha HS7s.
 
I listen to 90 - 100 dbC peak SPL in DVD or HD Netflix movies (equal to some cinema theater peak SPL) and I do not feel that the deep bass is much less emphasized than the rest of the frequencies. This is with 2db less than flat in both room correction and high trim settings. IMO, the very deep bass that you hear on the movies (less the tactile transducers present on some cinemas) is incredibly reproduced, but with only 55W of RMS power (total bi-amps) (95W peak total), it won't win against an 8" sub in SPL and bass extension and impact of course. I don't know where you got the high-pass filter, but I don't think the bass is rolled off at 50 Hz (more like around 35 Hz with the HS7 from the YouTube frequency test). Then again, I'm just amazed at how low and loud the deep bass can go with the 6.5" drivers at cinema dbC SPL levels (trumps my AKG K712 and Sony MDR-1000X in bass extension easily).

 
The HS7 frequency response graph from the Yamaha manual:

In a small room you may not need anything more than that, but please keep in mind that some people make purchasing decisions based on the opinions presented in head-fi, so please: facts first.
 
And block diagram from the same source, with the high pass filter highlighted:
 

 
In UK there's a company that sells them modded with the filter removed and upgraded caps and opamps - I thought maybe you have a pair of these.
 
Don't get me wrong: I have a set of HS8 myself and I love them to death. But in my setup and for my requirements a sub is very desirable. Maybe that's because I don't listen as loud, maybe in a treated room the lack of sub-bass is more evident. Anyway - happy to see you're enjoying them.
 
Now back to the thread's topic.
For me the near field monitors paired with a computer as a source (plus a nice DAC and preamp) really hit the sweet spot. Headphones are too much of a compromise and fully blown speaker setup requires more investment than I am prepared to put in. I still use headphones for about 20% of my listening time, but monitors are the go-to setup. The key element is the speakers themselves and they don't have to be super expensive to deliver fantastic sound.
 
In fact this is how a lot of music we listen to is created: using run of the mill near field monitors. Having a system that is more detailed and revealing than these we run the risk of hearing things we were never meant to. Some enjoy this, some hate it - just something to consider...

 

[canali]

really enjoying my first desktop setup of the Audioengine A5+ ...the smaller but musical
Pioneer sw 8mk2 sub really adds some meat to the bones....imo once you add a good quality
sub and blend it in well with small monitors, it's hard to go back to no sub.
 
this said, i've read great things on the Adams F5 so am now
looking for a pair of those to replace my A5+.
 
to those who've had both the Adams A5X and F5, is there that big a difference in sq?
i was just today offered a pair of A5X...but am wondering if they're more
focused for the pro and studio work/mixing (so more analytic) vs the well reviewed F5 which seem fine for desktops
and personal listening pleasure?
 
happy holidaze everyone.

 

[canali]

well have had my audioengine a5+ speakers on my desktop now a few weeks.
just added the pioneer sw 8km2 sub for a fuller bottom end.
 
a few things...
 
1/speakers are only 3.5' apart on the desk...i'm thinking of getting
actual 29" speaker stands to place them further apart (5-6 ft)
i see a  number of you have done this too in the pics you'd kindly posted
of your rigs....helps with better imaging and sound i presume?
(even on audioengine's site it was suggested to spread them 6' across, give or take)
 
2/.also trying to find a pair of focal alpha 50 speakers to replace them,
for better sound
 
3/still searching around for a nice quality 3.5 to dual rca cable to experiment
to work with my chord mojo and dragonfly red as dac to my speakers
(esp nice given the df red will soon support mqa
per ces 2017 announcement by audioquest per a firmware update
..i subscribe to tidal)
 
4/was watching a website dealing with room acoustics, bass traps etc.
wow can that get pricey!...creates alot of FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt)
as if you're listening in 'optimal' conditions.
anyone have any cheaper methods...might explore some things against the wall
where my speakers are placed.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
1/speakers are only 3.5' apart on the desk...i'm thinking of getting
actual 29" speaker stands to place them further apart (5-6 ft)
i see a  number of you have done this too in the pics you'd kindly posted
of your rigs....helps with better imaging and sound i presume?
(even on audioengine's site it was suggested to spread them 6' across, give or take)

 

If you're not going to move your seat farther back the overall result might not be all that beneficial. I'd much rather keep them at 3.5ft apart, maybe just move them off the desk and have them right next to the desk and experiment with toe-in angles (ie assuming that their spots on the desk now doesn't leave any room for moving them for more toe-in). Also, if you move them off the desk, make sure they're at least the same height as the desk, or ideally, wherever they are, have the rough midpoint of the tweeter and midwoofer at ear level, or otherwise angled up or down depending on how much lower or higher they are than your ears on a nearfield set-up.

 

Note that there might be additional recommendations on the manual, ie, the 6ft distance between them might be under the assumption that it's for a more traditional set-up rather than nearfield use.

 

[Xyrium]

Totally a good idea. I've always felt restricted by cans. Speakers, just off the desktop set me free. I've heard amp hiss potential from the Focal lower lines, just keep your ears open for it if you're within 3ft of them. I had the Solo 6bes, and I didn't have a problem with it. The Solos are astoundingly flat, but amazingly boring IMO. I dumped them. I've tried ATC SCM11 and 7s, a Zaph build - the ZRT in a sealed enclosure, JBL LSR305s (currently using them as my guitar processing rig), and now, Dynaudio M10s with a custom 8" sub. I have a Nuprime DAC9 and STA9 on the desktop, and the sound is musical, and involving. I had the M20s, but I just switched them, and I'm happy about it. The M20s were only slightly more substantial in the bottom end, but less clean, if you will, in the mids (to me, in my room).
 
I'm also considering a parallel rig using Schiit gear. Perhaps their Freya and a DAC. Waiting for more info/reviews on the Freya.
 
If keeping it cheap, perhaps a pair of the Elac UniFi B6s and a Teac DAC/Amp. I haven't heard the Elacs, though they are reviewed with great enthusiasm everywhere, but I've had Teac stuff, and it's extremely good for the price.

 

[canali]

 

 

If you're not going to move your seat farther back the overall result might not be all that beneficial. I'd much rather keep them at 3.5ft apart, maybe just move them off the desk and have them right next to the desk and experiment with toe-in angles (ie assuming that their spots on the desk now doesn't leave any room for moving them for more toe-in). Also, if you move them off the desk, make sure they're at least the same height as the desk, or ideally, wherever they are, have the rough midpoint of the tweeter and midwoofer at ear level, or otherwise angled up or down depending on how much lower or higher they are than your ears on a nearfield set-up.

 

Note that there might be additional recommendations on the manual, ie, the 6ft distance between them might be under the assumption that it's for a more traditional set-up rather than nearfield use.

thanks!
just found some selby acoustics steel 36" speaker stands..reg us109 but will get 'em for us55
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/ele/5949650779.html
would be at perfect ear level
 
also considering these sanus 31''..a pair i can get shipped for us40
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/245621-REG/Sanus_BF31B_31_MDF_Construction_Speaker.html
 
i think might be best to go a bit short (can add layers of material to lift them higher)
...vs too tall a speaker stand...esp if i ever change my furniture around.
 
or DYI speaker stands for under $30 (for desktop)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db3R6L6RuWs&ab_channel=TekEverything
 
.