[Blumis]

Hello all

A few days ago I got myself a pair of Sennheiser HD650 and a Dragonfly Cobalt - love the combo sound quality wise, but I can't figure out if I need more power.

When I listen to never stuff (I use the Tidal desktop app from my PC, listening to HIFI and Master quality) the volume I can get is fine, say stuff like The Weeknd, The Gaslight Anthem and Steven Wilson to name a few.

When I listen to older stuff, I can't help put thinking the volume is kinda too low, even when it's at 100%. By older stuff I'm talking about artists like James Taylor, Pink Floyd, Neil Young etc... I guess these albums are generally mixed lower than newer stuff?

So, can I get an amp and combine it with my Dragonfly? There is an amp in the Dragonfly, but I've read it can be bypassed? And how much would I gain from doing so? Should I return the Dragonfly and get something else? I'm a total newbie when it comes to this stuff, so any suggestions are welcome

 

[kukkurovaca]

Hello all

A few days ago I got myself a pair of Sennheiser HD650 and a Dragonfly Cobalt - love the combo sound quality wise, but I can't figure out if I need more power.

When I listen to never stuff (I use the Tidal desktop app from my PC, listening to HIFI and Master quality) the volume I can get is fine, say stuff like The Weeknd, The Gaslight Anthem and Steven Wilson to name a few.

When I listen to older stuff, I can't help put thinking the volume is kinda too low, even when it's at 100%. By older stuff I'm talking about artists like James Taylor, Pink Floyd, Neil Young etc... I guess these albums are generally mixed lower than newer stuff?

So, can I get an amp and combine it with my Dragonfly? There is an amp in the Dragonfly, but I've read it can be bypassed? And how much would I gain from doing so? Should I return the Dragonfly and get something else? I'm a total newbie when it comes to this stuff, so any suggestions are welcome

Are you planning to get a full-size desktop amp, or a portable amp? If going full-size, you'll most likely need a 3.5mm to RCA adapter, and you may want to google to see what volume setting from the Cobalt will work best relative to the input that amps expect.

If going portable, just make sure to get sometheing with enough juice to drive your headphones. Something like a Fiio A5 should work fine. Some folks are very concerned about "double amping" but a portable amp is designed to expect input from a phone; working from a small DAC/amp is a similar case.

I frequently use a Radsone ES100 (small bluetooth DAC/amp) with a Ray Samuels SR-71A amp, and have no problem with hard-to-drive planars (Argons) or hard-to-drive dynamics (HD800).

All that being said, if you're in the return window for the Dragonfly, you might consider going to a more powerful combined DAC/amp and/or a unit with balanced output.

 

[megabigeye]

The DragonFlies are designed to be usable with an amp. I had the Red and it worked very well with a FiiO E12A or my BottleHead setup. I don't think the line-out functions by bypassing the amp, it just offers a constant 2.1V. I'm pretty sure that's how it works, anyway. However, the DFC has (or had, anyway) a problem of clipping when the volume is maxed. The solution is to keep the volume one or two steps below 100%.

And your assumption about your older music is right: a lot of older music is mixed much lower than newer music and can sound quiet even when it's turned up. This is something that you might not notice as much on lower end headphones because the headphones' distortion can cause the music to seem louder than it actually is. Tube amps can reintroduce some pleasing distortion that will make that music seem louder again. The bass boost on something like the A5 might also make things seem louder, too. Or, if you're really ambitious, you could try to create an EQ setting based on the equal-loudness contour.

 

[CoryGillmore]

Are you planning to get a full-size desktop amp, or a portable amp? If going full-size, you'll most likely need a 3.5mm to RCA adapter, and you may want to google to see what volume setting from the Cobalt will work best relative to the input that amps expect.

If going portable, just make sure to get sometheing with enough juice to drive your headphones. Something like a Fiio A5 should work fine. Some folks are very concerned about "double amping" but a portable amp is designed to expect input from a phone; working from a small DAC/amp is a similar case.

I frequently use a Radsone ES100 (small bluetooth DAC/amp) with a Ray Samuels SR-71A amp, and have no problem with hard-to-drive planars (Argons) or hard-to-drive dynamics (HD800).

All that being said, if you're in the return window for the Dragonfly, you might consider going to a more powerful combined DAC/amp and/or a unit with balanced output.

Wow I haven't seen an SR71A mentioned around here in a long time! That's one of the first amps I bought used here on the forums back in 2010! I've still got it too! I actually just contacted Ray about getting the jacks repaired in August, still need to send it in. It's a sub-200 serial number model with the user transferable lifetime warranty. The thing used to drive my 250ohm DT880 no problem back in the day! It's a monster!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

When I listen to never stuff (I use the Tidal desktop app from my PC, listening to HIFI and Master quality) the volume I can get is fine, say stuff like The Weeknd, The Gaslight Anthem and Steven Wilson to name a few.

When I listen to older stuff, I can't help put thinking the volume is kinda too low, even when it's at 100%. By older stuff I'm talking about artists like James Taylor, Pink Floyd, Neil Young etc... I guess these albums are generally mixed lower than newer stuff?

I'd describe it more the other way around...most newer stuff is mixed too loud with dynamics quashed. Rear more on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

A few days ago I got myself a pair of Sennheiser HD650 and a Dragonfly Cobalt - love the combo sound quality wise, but I can't figure out if I need more power.

To be more precise, you need more voltage. Maybe a bit more gain.

So, can I get an amp and combine it with my Dragonfly? There is an amp in the Dragonfly, but I've read it can be bypassed? And how much would I gain from doing so? Should I return the Dragonfly and get something else? I'm a total newbie when it comes to this stuff, so any suggestions are welcome

AFAIK you just max it out and output stops at 2V, and THD+N is relatively low if it sees a high impedance output. Not the most ideal but compared to buying a new one, then might as well do that for now if you're only buying an amp.

 

[Blumis]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I truly appreciate them

I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm keeping the Dragonfly, but I want to get more power for home use - so I'm going for a desktop amp to use with the Dragonfly.

The Dragonfly is loud "enough" if I ever want to make use of it's portability and use it with my phone.

So, can you recommend a desktop amp with plenty of power? I'm not looking for super expensive stuff, rather a "good enough" amp.

I'm in Europe if that matters

Thank you so much

 

[Blumis]

I'm currently looking at Schiit Magni 3 - how would that amp with with the Dragonfly Cobalt?

 

[megabigeye]

You're welcome!

I don't have any specific recommendations, but rather a piece of general advice: there are a lot of people that see the HD 650's 300Ω impedance and assume it requires a ton of power; it doesn't. It only requires 128mW to reach the threshold of pain (120dB) and less than half of that to reach rock concert levels (115dB).

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I don't have any specific recommendations, but rather a piece of general advice: there are a lot of people that see the HD 650's 300Ω impedance and assume it requires a ton of power; it doesn't. It only requires 128mW to reach the threshold of pain (120dB) and less than half of that to reach rock concert levels (115dB).

To be more precise, it's not that the HD650 requires a crap ton of power, but that some amps - particularly USB-powered amps - tend to not produce that much power into a 300ohm load.

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

I'm currently looking at Schiit Magni 3 - how would that amp with with the Dragonfly Cobalt?

Hello. I find the Cobalt works beautifully with my Magni 3. I can't get enough volume out of it without a second amp, so that's pretty much the only way I use it now.