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Mini-Meet on 8/12/08 with HeadphoneAddict (Larry) and Blutarsky (Scott)
Our last review together is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/co...1-more-346721/
We will post some photos of the equipment later.
Our meet notes are as follows:
Larry: We did a "Grado-Fest" mini-meet to compare Blutarsky's Melos SHA Gold and Zana Deux (fed by Stello DA100) to my Single Power Square Wave XL (fed by Apogee mini-DAC balanced out using Sigma 11 PSU). We listened to his Grado HP-1, HP-2, PS-1 and PF-325 along with my HD600 and RS-1 (both with APS V3 cable).
When we were done with that, as an afterthought we pulled out his Apogee Duet, along with my Pico, D2 Viper, D2 Boa and added into the mix a TTVJ portable Millett Hybrid with Headstage USB DAC cable. We listened to all of them off the Macbook with the RS-1. (I left the Predator at home in my other pants, and forgot that I had the HR Micro Stack in my gear bag with me, sorry).
Scott: Yeah, my desired end-state was to compare the Melos and Zana Deux, and pick one that I could part with. In the short time I’ve had the Melos, I already assessed that I preferred the Melos with my Grados but I wanted to try other phones like Larry’s HD600 so I could compare them with the APS V3 and APS balanced cable through the Melos “un-balanced” XLR pre-amp output. I’m not sure the Melos Gold is balanced in the traditional sense. Considering the input is from an unbalanced source, anywhere we use the term “balanced” regarding the Melos the reader should keep this situation in mind. If anyone can expound upon “balanced” or not nature of the Melos outputs please let me know. The Zana Deux is a fantastic SE amp and never thought I’d even consider selling it. However the Melos synergizes extremely well with my gear and is so versatile; it is a HP amp, pre-amp, phono stage and sports “balanced” outs. My thinking was, if it preformed well – then it would be hard to justify keeping the ZD.
Larry: So, I brought my 10 yr old son Ben (who love headphones and has his own Grado MS-1 and SR-Lambda) and we did some intense listening, and my son still got bored. How is that possible?
Scott: Seriously, doesn’t he know how cool we are? Fo’shizzle.
Larry: Okay, so the SECOND shocker of the day - we found that Scott's Stello DAC > Melos > PS-1 with bowls sounds a whole lot like my Apogee mini-DAC > Single Power Square Wave XL balanced in/out > HD600 with balanced APS V3 cable. I have made the statement before that my balanced HD600 have more speed and attack, and approach Grado territory. I think this proves it out. In saying this, I don't mean identical sounding, but certainly very similar to the degree that it would have taken a lot more time to be able to identify the specific differences. The PS-1 respond well to bowl pads when needing to open up the soundstage, and they have enough bass reserves to not sound thin with bowls, but boy do they kick out the bass with flats and a good amp. The HD600 could not dream to make that kind of bass without any EQ.
Scott: I know we are making some very esoteric and variable-laden comparisons here but bear with us. Larry and I are both big fans of synergy and tuning so we try these unusual comparisons. It tickles us to hear folks on the board say that this phone or that phone is a dog. Truthfully, we’ve demonstrated (to each other at least) that the main difference maker (beyond the music genre / source fidelity) is gear synergy. Even that synergy can be tuned via many variables like tubes, opamps and pads. In this freaky experiment I’d agree we got a very similar sound from his HD600 balanced on his rig and my PS-1 with bowls on my rig. Although the idea of putting bowls on the PS-1 was silly to me, it demonstrates a point Larry wanted to make. The HD600 is an amazing phone and I don’t think they get the credit they deserve because many rigs hold them back. Not the HD600s fault. The PS-1 with bowls really opens the soundstage but it does diffuse the bass. If I’m listening to the PS-1 it is because I want a little slam – if I want headspace and soundstage I’d generally go elsewhere- cool to know I could get the headspace and sufficient bass in the same phone. Further I really like the SP Square Wave XL, it is also very versatile (SE and Balanced) and sounds great. I find it to be transparent yet not overly analytical or cold, a nice combination of accuracy and musicality. We need to switch the source/dac around next time to see how it sounds with the apogee duet and the Stello. I will say I think the Apogee mini-DAC benefits from the S-11 power supply but I’d like to hear a A/B to be sure the difference was as large as I remember.
If you have read this far – congratulations. Tip, let’s say you have a headphone / amp combo you want to like but can’t quite get there, send Larry a PM, his greatest genius lies in rig tuning. I can’t overstate that.
Larry: Great – I’m going to have to upgrade to a bigger message box now. Now I’m gonna have to get really outrageous, so I wont get so many requests for help. While I thought my Balanced HD600 rig actually sounded as enjoyable and engaging as the Stello/Melos/PS-1 rig above, I also thought the balanced HD600 rig was just a little better than either single-ended HP-1000 out of the Stello/Melos rig. There just seemed to be an extra degree of weight to the instruments being portrayed, which the single ended HP-1000 didn't quite match. This Square Wave XL is a fully discrete 8-channel balanced output amp with blackgates cap upgrades, and it has been a great pleasure to get to know it better as it takes the HD600 to a new level. I am planning to re-terminate my APS V2 Denon D2000 as balanced next, although I am considering buying a balanced D5000 instead.
While the Square Wave XL is not posted on the Single Power Website, it has been out for about a year and is typically a $1,500-$1,700 amp depending on options, and can be ordered by phone. There is also a single ended model, with both a 1/4" and 1/8" output. Mine features a pair of balanced XLR inputs, but also Single-ended RCA inputs that can take balanced input via RCA, or if balanced is not detected it will convert single-ended RCA input to balanced by re-creating the negative potion of the analog signal from the positive portion. The output is a pair of XLR jacks which incorporates a single-ended 1/4" headphone jack in the center of each one, similar to the Headroom amps. We were able to run TWO single ended Grados at the SAME time with no adverse effect on sound quality, while the Melos struggled to power one HP-1000 at the same time as the balanced HD600 off the rear XLR jacks. What is unusual about this amp are the dual volume pots that allow adjusting the volume for left and right separately, but to fit a balanced volume control into a package this small would have been a real challenge. The included power supply is actually more massive and bulky than the amp itself. Interestingly, the amplifier has no power on/off switch - Mikhail told me it will not hurt it to leave it plugged in all the time.
What I like most about the Single Power Square Wave XL is that it doesn't impart it's own flavor or color to the music, and it doesn't put a veil over the music - it just grabs a hold of the HD600 drivers and forces them to obey it's will.
Scott: Hmmm, okay I like the HD600 as much as the next guy but maybe not as much as Larry! Seriously, I loved the balanced HD600 with the Square Wave (SQW), I think it approaches his HE60 in terms of speed, accuracy, clarity and soundstage. I also like the balanced HD600/SQW combo better than the SE HD600/Melos combo. Regarding the balanced HD600/SQW vs the Melos SE/HP1/2 - I don’t think it’s a “one is better than the other” scenario, its just these phones do different things well and I’ve never heard either phone sound better under any condition. Wait a tick, I just remembered I have heard the balanced HD600 sound better, guess you’ll have to read on.
Larry: Yeah, okay, you are right about this not being a “one is better than the other”, it was more of a “good thing done differently”. Regarding the “HD600/SQW approaches his HE60 in terms of speed, accuracy, clarity and soundstage” statement – it might approach the HE60 but it still doesn’t match them; although the body, weight and substance to the instruments is superior with the HD600/SQW. I didn’t think to bring the HE60/HEV70 again, because we’ve “been there done that” with our last mini-meet.
So, after we’d compared dissimilar systems, we decided to decrease the number of variables. After we determined that the HP-1 with polarity switch up sounded just like the HP-2, we hooked up the HP-1 to his rig above, and the HP-2 to my rig above (using the single ended jacks), and synchronized both of our Mac computers with the same music. With close listening, I felt the two rigs with HP-1000 were almost identical sounding. There was no picking a winner - it just couldn't be done. We did both prefer the HP-1 with the polarity switch flipped down as negative by just a small degree - it sounded just a tad more sparkly that way with all the amps, but it was very subtle (although consistent). To make the comparison fair we left the polarity on positive to get the same sound as the other HP-1000.
We swapped headphones with no change or difference. Somehow Mikhail has managed to make the Square Wave Solid State amp sound like a Melos tube amp when both are driving the same single ended headphones. It's either that or the DAC's leveled the playing field, since it was the DAC/Amp combo that was being evaluated. It would have been way too complicated to swap DAC's to the other amp for this meet, but I'd sure like to look into this further someday. Even more interesting was the Stello was being used via USB input, and the Apogee via optical. Although we have determined at the previous meet that the Apogee via USB sounds as good as optical, I didn't plan for another DAC to be able to perform that well via USB too.
Scott: Regarding SE Melos vs SQW, both with HP-1000 comparison - I guess I’ll have to do this test again. I remember the HP-1000 sounding like an HP-1000 under both amps. It could be that Mikhail is simply a genius. I was having a hard time picking which I liked better, and being surprised because I clearly liked the HP-1000 via Melos combo better than the HP-1000 out of the Zana Deux combo (combo being with the same source, IC, DAC).
Larry: Dude, I just said the same thing, look just above your comments! But, I did forget to mention that I also preferred the Melos over the Zana Deux by a small margin. I know that was what you were focused on discerning the most. Why did we not listen to the HD600 out of the Zana Deux?
Scott: Maybe it was fatigue at this point in the mini-marathon because we broke for dinner shortly afterward. I do need to A/B the optical and USB connection on the Stello, I’ve been satisfied with the USB out but that was a matter of cable type length and not preference, actually forgot about it until Larry mentioned it, I need to get a longer optical cable…
Larry: Then came the biggest shocker! After we listened to the Melos with the HD600 single ended (APS V3 cable) and determined that it was very capable with them, we then connected my balanced HD600 cable to the XLR outputs in the back of his Melos. Although the Melos was being fed a single ended signal, and the XLR out is intended to drive powered speakers, the 3D soundstage and crisp treble and detail opened up greatly. My Single Power, while being more 3D and open when balanced vs single ended, just didn't have the air, ambience or crisp sparkly highs of the Stello > Melos XLR out when driving the HD600.
We were both stunned, had our socks knocked off, and needed a drink. That clinched the decision right there to sell the Zana Deux and keep the Melos SHA Gold. However, something I still don't understand is how the XLR out with a single ended source could sound so different from the single ended out, or how the XLR out into HD600 could beat all of the Grados via the 1/4" jack (which sounded great itself).
I wonder if my source or interconnects could be part of the difference, and that I am going to have to upgrade my cheap $40 Neutrik XLR interconnects to something like the anti-cables IC's that I love so much amongst my RCA interconnects. Maybe then I can catch up to the Melos XLR out > HD600.
Scott: Hey I, didn’t need a drink, I was already buzzed from this test! Again, I’d wondered if these “balanced” outputs would drive phones and was anxious to find out. I was not prepared for the balanced output delivery to be spectacular. I could not believe my ears. I only spent a limited time with Larry’s HE60s but this is how I remember them sounding. Huge soundstage, clarity, detail and liquidity – wow. This capability is what I was hoping the Melos would deliver – I’d have been satisfied with a performance on par with the SQW but this was beyond my expectation. I can only speculate / dream how the Grado’s may benefit from some “balanced” Melos love. If they don’t reach this capacity it’ll be time to get a pair of HD600. Note: we also connected the XLR jacks to some nice proven silver IC’s for Larry’s rig in order to take the low quality XLR IC from SQW to Apogee out of the equation but this didn’t seem to make a difference – the same neutrik plugs were still in line.
Larry: I forgot about the Pendles-made silver IC’s, but the XLR–RCA adapters we used to make his cables connect to my XLR out were cheap $4 eBay adapters ($7.95 for two shipped free)! So, I’m hoping that there may have still been a weak link in the chain, and that I can catch up later
Now, we’ve talked a lot about PS-1 and HP-1000, with a little HD600 sprinkled in, but I really felt that the one of a kind PF-325 were the best sounding Grados in the house. For those who don't know, these are an HF-1 with PS-1 driver and 325 cups and silver dragon cable. The sad part is that these PF-325 belong to the Blut's 6 year old son. I tried to talk his son into trading his PF-325 for his dad's ALO re-cabled woodied HF-1 (which sound like RS-1 as I had him listen to my RS-1). Then the Blut would still have a PS-1 of some kind and be willing to sell me the stock PS-1 (after I sell off a few amps and a kidney). Said son took the PF-325 back and headed off to his room to listen to them, ignoring me.
Scott: Agreed! Sam’s PF-325 affectionately named the Up-Armored Dragon Woo or UADW (long story) is a tuned PS-1 placed in a HF-1 body, mahogany cups, capped with “up-armored” metal 325i cups and headcoverage headband. The short story is that these were originally a stock pair of HF-1 (#75) that I gave my son for his 6th birthday. They ended up getting ultramod’d with a silver dragon cable and indestructible cups by Pendles (Dr. Pendlestein’s monster). That they sound great is a function of the drivers and the skill / foresight of the creator. They are a blast and Sam doesn’t know what he has yet, but someday he will.
Larry: We also found the silver dragon cable to be very superior to the Joseph Grado Signature Ultra Wide Bandwidth cable. We decided this after using the PF-325 with an extension cord made out of Joseph Grado Signature Ultra Wide Band cable, and ALL the benefits of the silver cable disappeared with the extension in the path! I think we can agree that the HP-1 with the person Larryminator re-cable need to be re-cabled with Silver Dragon or APS V3 cable and balanced XLR connectors, soon. God, I shudder to think how good that will sound.
Scott: I looked again and it turns out the extension cable is the “Joseph Grado Laboratory Standard” cable not the JGSUWB cable, not sure where this cable lands in the scheme of JG cable efforts. However, my HP1000 are the JGSUWB cable. I agree the extension removed the benefit of the silver dragon cable so I have to wonder what it did to the HP1000 earlier in the testing. I agree that I need to re-cable one of the HP1000 with a balanced cable to try the Melos “balanced-or-not” XLR outputs – and I am very excited to see what the difference would be. If it even approaches the gains made by the HD600 I’d be happy.
Larry: After we were done with the Melos, Zana Deux and Single Power we played with the TTVJ Millet Hybrid with Headstage USB DAC Cable. I thought it was fantastic with all these Grados, and despite the inferior $40 DAC (same DAC as in the Lyrix) we enjoyed the musicality of the TTVJ as much as the Apogee Duet headphone out. The lesson here is that it seems that great amp/headphone synergy can outweigh the contribution from a great DAC or Amp section, when the goal is simply enjoying the presentation of the music as a whole. The TTVJ can be used with an iPod or other portable source, while the Apogee Duet can't, so I wonder how long the Duet will stay in the Blut's stable?
Switching to feeding the TTVJ with the D2 Viper as DAC/Preamp was even better than with the Headstage DAC, but still not quite as detailed as the combined DAC/Amps due to the TTVJ being just a little less detailed than any of the SS amps. But boy does the music just flow with the TTVJ. When reviewing and comparing amps, you just forget that you’re doing a review and just get sucked into listening to it. Then you have to go back and listen again to take notes of what you heard, because you forgot to the first time around. Based on purely technical merits, the TTVJ isn't the best, but the way it presents the music makes up for it - it's more emotional.
Scott: I have set my sights on the TTVJ Millet Hybrid and Headstage DAC as my next portable (only) purchase; Larry keeps trying to get me to sell him my Apogee duet and will go to any length! Seriously I love the Duet when I’m on the road, and I plan to use it in conjunction with a USB microphone to record the boy’s violin practice, so its not going anywhere.
Larry: Well, if you didn’t want my TTVJ in trade for the Duet, and would settle for the Pico instead, then I might do it.
Now, speaking of the other portable DAC/amps - I did think that the D2 Viper and Pico were sounding pretty close to the above two setups, but they were not quite as rich in the mids nor as solid sounding, with the D2 Boa doing a surprising job keeping up with the Viper and Pico (after 600 hours on it).
Scott: I am totally overwhelmed by all these devices, I think the differences are incremental and the concept of diminishing returns is most relevant in this category. I really like the D2 Boa for that reason.
Larry: Conversely, there is not a big difference between the HP-1000 and my ApureSound V3 cabled RS-1 with flats (s/n 667 but I wish it was 666). The RS-1 also sound nice with bigger soundstage when using bowls, but in contrast I thought that the HP-1000 sound too thin with bowl pads. We'd always agreed if the Blut sold my old HP-2 that I'd buy them back, but now I see the PS-1 as the obvious upgrade instead. I'm just not ready to sell a kidney yet.
Scott: Ha, I’m not looking for a kidney right now, but am glad to know if I needed one it’s in the bank. I think the older re-cabled RS-1s are a good compliment to the HP1000 - what I wasn’t prepared for was the extent to which the RS-1s excelled. They are a pretty good match in terms of detail, clarity and accuracy. Maybe they are more fun to listen to with some music, I need more time with these to appreciate / articulate the differences, but I can say I’m thinking about getting a pair - if I can find them.
Larry: We still had time to share a pizza with the Blut's wife and kids, have a long talk about raising kids, listen to Sam play his violin and Jacob try to play the Ukelele, have my son try to beat Sam in a few games of chess.
Scott: Ben did a great job of keeping the boys entertained by schooling them on the finer points of the Sicilian Wing Gambit opening. He is a great kid - he was kind and very tolerant with my younger boys which isn’t always easy. And if you think Larry is a great headphone resource you should talk to him about his actual professional specialty - pediatrics. What a great time we had, also nice head-fi strategy to blend/cover the geeky headphone listening with grown-up dinner conversation for my stay at home wife.
Larry: I think I have fried my ears with sensory overload today, because with careful listening back at home that night, with the Predator, Pico, D2 Viper, D2 Boa and HR Micro Stack (TTVJ battery needs a charge) I found that I am very pleased with all of them, and their differences are less than their similarities. The differences when feeding them via analog input from the same source (my iMod with Vcap dock) are even less. The Predator still has a big sound and bass delivery that brings it closest to the impact of the TTVJ in terms of feeling like a desktop amp, but not quite.
However, I could be happy to have any one of these as my only USB DAC amp right now (although I might change my mind tomorrow). The HD600 and RS-1 are good with any of these USB DAC amps at this moment, while I switch from amp to amp. If we're only considering these few miniature USB DAC Amps that I have on hand tonight, for both iPod and computer, I'd still pick the Predator first, the D2 Viper second, the Pico third and the Boa fourth - but they are so close that none of them are losers. I consider the TTVJ/USB DAC Cable and Micro Stack to be more in the "transportable laptop use" category, although the TTVJ or Micro Amp could be strapped to an iPod Classic and not be terribly out of place.
Scott: Does this mean you're gonna sell me that TTVJ now?
Larry: Ummm, lemme think about it a minute....
...no
Scott and Larry in Harmony Well, that’s the end of this edition of “The Headphone Guys” - next time we’ll focus more on taking specific notes regarding what details on which songs we heard and like/disliked. Maybe this sounds like a no-brainer, but we get carried away theorizing and discussing while the details/data gathering gets short shrift.
Our last review together is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/co...1-more-346721/
We will post some photos of the equipment later.
Our meet notes are as follows:
Larry: We did a "Grado-Fest" mini-meet to compare Blutarsky's Melos SHA Gold and Zana Deux (fed by Stello DA100) to my Single Power Square Wave XL (fed by Apogee mini-DAC balanced out using Sigma 11 PSU). We listened to his Grado HP-1, HP-2, PS-1 and PF-325 along with my HD600 and RS-1 (both with APS V3 cable).
When we were done with that, as an afterthought we pulled out his Apogee Duet, along with my Pico, D2 Viper, D2 Boa and added into the mix a TTVJ portable Millett Hybrid with Headstage USB DAC cable. We listened to all of them off the Macbook with the RS-1. (I left the Predator at home in my other pants, and forgot that I had the HR Micro Stack in my gear bag with me, sorry).
Scott: Yeah, my desired end-state was to compare the Melos and Zana Deux, and pick one that I could part with. In the short time I’ve had the Melos, I already assessed that I preferred the Melos with my Grados but I wanted to try other phones like Larry’s HD600 so I could compare them with the APS V3 and APS balanced cable through the Melos “un-balanced” XLR pre-amp output. I’m not sure the Melos Gold is balanced in the traditional sense. Considering the input is from an unbalanced source, anywhere we use the term “balanced” regarding the Melos the reader should keep this situation in mind. If anyone can expound upon “balanced” or not nature of the Melos outputs please let me know. The Zana Deux is a fantastic SE amp and never thought I’d even consider selling it. However the Melos synergizes extremely well with my gear and is so versatile; it is a HP amp, pre-amp, phono stage and sports “balanced” outs. My thinking was, if it preformed well – then it would be hard to justify keeping the ZD.
Larry: So, I brought my 10 yr old son Ben (who love headphones and has his own Grado MS-1 and SR-Lambda) and we did some intense listening, and my son still got bored. How is that possible?
Scott: Seriously, doesn’t he know how cool we are? Fo’shizzle.
Larry: Okay, so the SECOND shocker of the day - we found that Scott's Stello DAC > Melos > PS-1 with bowls sounds a whole lot like my Apogee mini-DAC > Single Power Square Wave XL balanced in/out > HD600 with balanced APS V3 cable. I have made the statement before that my balanced HD600 have more speed and attack, and approach Grado territory. I think this proves it out. In saying this, I don't mean identical sounding, but certainly very similar to the degree that it would have taken a lot more time to be able to identify the specific differences. The PS-1 respond well to bowl pads when needing to open up the soundstage, and they have enough bass reserves to not sound thin with bowls, but boy do they kick out the bass with flats and a good amp. The HD600 could not dream to make that kind of bass without any EQ.
Scott: I know we are making some very esoteric and variable-laden comparisons here but bear with us. Larry and I are both big fans of synergy and tuning so we try these unusual comparisons. It tickles us to hear folks on the board say that this phone or that phone is a dog. Truthfully, we’ve demonstrated (to each other at least) that the main difference maker (beyond the music genre / source fidelity) is gear synergy. Even that synergy can be tuned via many variables like tubes, opamps and pads. In this freaky experiment I’d agree we got a very similar sound from his HD600 balanced on his rig and my PS-1 with bowls on my rig. Although the idea of putting bowls on the PS-1 was silly to me, it demonstrates a point Larry wanted to make. The HD600 is an amazing phone and I don’t think they get the credit they deserve because many rigs hold them back. Not the HD600s fault. The PS-1 with bowls really opens the soundstage but it does diffuse the bass. If I’m listening to the PS-1 it is because I want a little slam – if I want headspace and soundstage I’d generally go elsewhere- cool to know I could get the headspace and sufficient bass in the same phone. Further I really like the SP Square Wave XL, it is also very versatile (SE and Balanced) and sounds great. I find it to be transparent yet not overly analytical or cold, a nice combination of accuracy and musicality. We need to switch the source/dac around next time to see how it sounds with the apogee duet and the Stello. I will say I think the Apogee mini-DAC benefits from the S-11 power supply but I’d like to hear a A/B to be sure the difference was as large as I remember.
If you have read this far – congratulations. Tip, let’s say you have a headphone / amp combo you want to like but can’t quite get there, send Larry a PM, his greatest genius lies in rig tuning. I can’t overstate that.
Larry: Great – I’m going to have to upgrade to a bigger message box now. Now I’m gonna have to get really outrageous, so I wont get so many requests for help. While I thought my Balanced HD600 rig actually sounded as enjoyable and engaging as the Stello/Melos/PS-1 rig above, I also thought the balanced HD600 rig was just a little better than either single-ended HP-1000 out of the Stello/Melos rig. There just seemed to be an extra degree of weight to the instruments being portrayed, which the single ended HP-1000 didn't quite match. This Square Wave XL is a fully discrete 8-channel balanced output amp with blackgates cap upgrades, and it has been a great pleasure to get to know it better as it takes the HD600 to a new level. I am planning to re-terminate my APS V2 Denon D2000 as balanced next, although I am considering buying a balanced D5000 instead.
While the Square Wave XL is not posted on the Single Power Website, it has been out for about a year and is typically a $1,500-$1,700 amp depending on options, and can be ordered by phone. There is also a single ended model, with both a 1/4" and 1/8" output. Mine features a pair of balanced XLR inputs, but also Single-ended RCA inputs that can take balanced input via RCA, or if balanced is not detected it will convert single-ended RCA input to balanced by re-creating the negative potion of the analog signal from the positive portion. The output is a pair of XLR jacks which incorporates a single-ended 1/4" headphone jack in the center of each one, similar to the Headroom amps. We were able to run TWO single ended Grados at the SAME time with no adverse effect on sound quality, while the Melos struggled to power one HP-1000 at the same time as the balanced HD600 off the rear XLR jacks. What is unusual about this amp are the dual volume pots that allow adjusting the volume for left and right separately, but to fit a balanced volume control into a package this small would have been a real challenge. The included power supply is actually more massive and bulky than the amp itself. Interestingly, the amplifier has no power on/off switch - Mikhail told me it will not hurt it to leave it plugged in all the time.
What I like most about the Single Power Square Wave XL is that it doesn't impart it's own flavor or color to the music, and it doesn't put a veil over the music - it just grabs a hold of the HD600 drivers and forces them to obey it's will.
Scott: Hmmm, okay I like the HD600 as much as the next guy but maybe not as much as Larry! Seriously, I loved the balanced HD600 with the Square Wave (SQW), I think it approaches his HE60 in terms of speed, accuracy, clarity and soundstage. I also like the balanced HD600/SQW combo better than the SE HD600/Melos combo. Regarding the balanced HD600/SQW vs the Melos SE/HP1/2 - I don’t think it’s a “one is better than the other” scenario, its just these phones do different things well and I’ve never heard either phone sound better under any condition. Wait a tick, I just remembered I have heard the balanced HD600 sound better, guess you’ll have to read on.
Larry: Yeah, okay, you are right about this not being a “one is better than the other”, it was more of a “good thing done differently”. Regarding the “HD600/SQW approaches his HE60 in terms of speed, accuracy, clarity and soundstage” statement – it might approach the HE60 but it still doesn’t match them; although the body, weight and substance to the instruments is superior with the HD600/SQW. I didn’t think to bring the HE60/HEV70 again, because we’ve “been there done that” with our last mini-meet.
So, after we’d compared dissimilar systems, we decided to decrease the number of variables. After we determined that the HP-1 with polarity switch up sounded just like the HP-2, we hooked up the HP-1 to his rig above, and the HP-2 to my rig above (using the single ended jacks), and synchronized both of our Mac computers with the same music. With close listening, I felt the two rigs with HP-1000 were almost identical sounding. There was no picking a winner - it just couldn't be done. We did both prefer the HP-1 with the polarity switch flipped down as negative by just a small degree - it sounded just a tad more sparkly that way with all the amps, but it was very subtle (although consistent). To make the comparison fair we left the polarity on positive to get the same sound as the other HP-1000.
We swapped headphones with no change or difference. Somehow Mikhail has managed to make the Square Wave Solid State amp sound like a Melos tube amp when both are driving the same single ended headphones. It's either that or the DAC's leveled the playing field, since it was the DAC/Amp combo that was being evaluated. It would have been way too complicated to swap DAC's to the other amp for this meet, but I'd sure like to look into this further someday. Even more interesting was the Stello was being used via USB input, and the Apogee via optical. Although we have determined at the previous meet that the Apogee via USB sounds as good as optical, I didn't plan for another DAC to be able to perform that well via USB too.
Scott: Regarding SE Melos vs SQW, both with HP-1000 comparison - I guess I’ll have to do this test again. I remember the HP-1000 sounding like an HP-1000 under both amps. It could be that Mikhail is simply a genius. I was having a hard time picking which I liked better, and being surprised because I clearly liked the HP-1000 via Melos combo better than the HP-1000 out of the Zana Deux combo (combo being with the same source, IC, DAC).
Larry: Dude, I just said the same thing, look just above your comments! But, I did forget to mention that I also preferred the Melos over the Zana Deux by a small margin. I know that was what you were focused on discerning the most. Why did we not listen to the HD600 out of the Zana Deux?
Scott: Maybe it was fatigue at this point in the mini-marathon because we broke for dinner shortly afterward. I do need to A/B the optical and USB connection on the Stello, I’ve been satisfied with the USB out but that was a matter of cable type length and not preference, actually forgot about it until Larry mentioned it, I need to get a longer optical cable…
Larry: Then came the biggest shocker! After we listened to the Melos with the HD600 single ended (APS V3 cable) and determined that it was very capable with them, we then connected my balanced HD600 cable to the XLR outputs in the back of his Melos. Although the Melos was being fed a single ended signal, and the XLR out is intended to drive powered speakers, the 3D soundstage and crisp treble and detail opened up greatly. My Single Power, while being more 3D and open when balanced vs single ended, just didn't have the air, ambience or crisp sparkly highs of the Stello > Melos XLR out when driving the HD600.
We were both stunned, had our socks knocked off, and needed a drink. That clinched the decision right there to sell the Zana Deux and keep the Melos SHA Gold. However, something I still don't understand is how the XLR out with a single ended source could sound so different from the single ended out, or how the XLR out into HD600 could beat all of the Grados via the 1/4" jack (which sounded great itself).
I wonder if my source or interconnects could be part of the difference, and that I am going to have to upgrade my cheap $40 Neutrik XLR interconnects to something like the anti-cables IC's that I love so much amongst my RCA interconnects. Maybe then I can catch up to the Melos XLR out > HD600.
Scott: Hey I, didn’t need a drink, I was already buzzed from this test! Again, I’d wondered if these “balanced” outputs would drive phones and was anxious to find out. I was not prepared for the balanced output delivery to be spectacular. I could not believe my ears. I only spent a limited time with Larry’s HE60s but this is how I remember them sounding. Huge soundstage, clarity, detail and liquidity – wow. This capability is what I was hoping the Melos would deliver – I’d have been satisfied with a performance on par with the SQW but this was beyond my expectation. I can only speculate / dream how the Grado’s may benefit from some “balanced” Melos love. If they don’t reach this capacity it’ll be time to get a pair of HD600. Note: we also connected the XLR jacks to some nice proven silver IC’s for Larry’s rig in order to take the low quality XLR IC from SQW to Apogee out of the equation but this didn’t seem to make a difference – the same neutrik plugs were still in line.
Larry: I forgot about the Pendles-made silver IC’s, but the XLR–RCA adapters we used to make his cables connect to my XLR out were cheap $4 eBay adapters ($7.95 for two shipped free)! So, I’m hoping that there may have still been a weak link in the chain, and that I can catch up later
Now, we’ve talked a lot about PS-1 and HP-1000, with a little HD600 sprinkled in, but I really felt that the one of a kind PF-325 were the best sounding Grados in the house. For those who don't know, these are an HF-1 with PS-1 driver and 325 cups and silver dragon cable. The sad part is that these PF-325 belong to the Blut's 6 year old son. I tried to talk his son into trading his PF-325 for his dad's ALO re-cabled woodied HF-1 (which sound like RS-1 as I had him listen to my RS-1). Then the Blut would still have a PS-1 of some kind and be willing to sell me the stock PS-1 (after I sell off a few amps and a kidney). Said son took the PF-325 back and headed off to his room to listen to them, ignoring me.
Scott: Agreed! Sam’s PF-325 affectionately named the Up-Armored Dragon Woo or UADW (long story) is a tuned PS-1 placed in a HF-1 body, mahogany cups, capped with “up-armored” metal 325i cups and headcoverage headband. The short story is that these were originally a stock pair of HF-1 (#75) that I gave my son for his 6th birthday. They ended up getting ultramod’d with a silver dragon cable and indestructible cups by Pendles (Dr. Pendlestein’s monster). That they sound great is a function of the drivers and the skill / foresight of the creator. They are a blast and Sam doesn’t know what he has yet, but someday he will.
Larry: We also found the silver dragon cable to be very superior to the Joseph Grado Signature Ultra Wide Bandwidth cable. We decided this after using the PF-325 with an extension cord made out of Joseph Grado Signature Ultra Wide Band cable, and ALL the benefits of the silver cable disappeared with the extension in the path! I think we can agree that the HP-1 with the person Larryminator re-cable need to be re-cabled with Silver Dragon or APS V3 cable and balanced XLR connectors, soon. God, I shudder to think how good that will sound.
Scott: I looked again and it turns out the extension cable is the “Joseph Grado Laboratory Standard” cable not the JGSUWB cable, not sure where this cable lands in the scheme of JG cable efforts. However, my HP1000 are the JGSUWB cable. I agree the extension removed the benefit of the silver dragon cable so I have to wonder what it did to the HP1000 earlier in the testing. I agree that I need to re-cable one of the HP1000 with a balanced cable to try the Melos “balanced-or-not” XLR outputs – and I am very excited to see what the difference would be. If it even approaches the gains made by the HD600 I’d be happy.
Larry: After we were done with the Melos, Zana Deux and Single Power we played with the TTVJ Millet Hybrid with Headstage USB DAC Cable. I thought it was fantastic with all these Grados, and despite the inferior $40 DAC (same DAC as in the Lyrix) we enjoyed the musicality of the TTVJ as much as the Apogee Duet headphone out. The lesson here is that it seems that great amp/headphone synergy can outweigh the contribution from a great DAC or Amp section, when the goal is simply enjoying the presentation of the music as a whole. The TTVJ can be used with an iPod or other portable source, while the Apogee Duet can't, so I wonder how long the Duet will stay in the Blut's stable?
Switching to feeding the TTVJ with the D2 Viper as DAC/Preamp was even better than with the Headstage DAC, but still not quite as detailed as the combined DAC/Amps due to the TTVJ being just a little less detailed than any of the SS amps. But boy does the music just flow with the TTVJ. When reviewing and comparing amps, you just forget that you’re doing a review and just get sucked into listening to it. Then you have to go back and listen again to take notes of what you heard, because you forgot to the first time around. Based on purely technical merits, the TTVJ isn't the best, but the way it presents the music makes up for it - it's more emotional.
Scott: I have set my sights on the TTVJ Millet Hybrid and Headstage DAC as my next portable (only) purchase; Larry keeps trying to get me to sell him my Apogee duet and will go to any length! Seriously I love the Duet when I’m on the road, and I plan to use it in conjunction with a USB microphone to record the boy’s violin practice, so its not going anywhere.
Larry: Well, if you didn’t want my TTVJ in trade for the Duet, and would settle for the Pico instead, then I might do it.
Scott: I am totally overwhelmed by all these devices, I think the differences are incremental and the concept of diminishing returns is most relevant in this category. I really like the D2 Boa for that reason.
Larry: Conversely, there is not a big difference between the HP-1000 and my ApureSound V3 cabled RS-1 with flats (s/n 667 but I wish it was 666). The RS-1 also sound nice with bigger soundstage when using bowls, but in contrast I thought that the HP-1000 sound too thin with bowl pads. We'd always agreed if the Blut sold my old HP-2 that I'd buy them back, but now I see the PS-1 as the obvious upgrade instead. I'm just not ready to sell a kidney yet.
Scott: Ha, I’m not looking for a kidney right now, but am glad to know if I needed one it’s in the bank. I think the older re-cabled RS-1s are a good compliment to the HP1000 - what I wasn’t prepared for was the extent to which the RS-1s excelled. They are a pretty good match in terms of detail, clarity and accuracy. Maybe they are more fun to listen to with some music, I need more time with these to appreciate / articulate the differences, but I can say I’m thinking about getting a pair - if I can find them.
Larry: We still had time to share a pizza with the Blut's wife and kids, have a long talk about raising kids, listen to Sam play his violin and Jacob try to play the Ukelele, have my son try to beat Sam in a few games of chess.
Scott: Ben did a great job of keeping the boys entertained by schooling them on the finer points of the Sicilian Wing Gambit opening. He is a great kid - he was kind and very tolerant with my younger boys which isn’t always easy. And if you think Larry is a great headphone resource you should talk to him about his actual professional specialty - pediatrics. What a great time we had, also nice head-fi strategy to blend/cover the geeky headphone listening with grown-up dinner conversation for my stay at home wife.
Larry: I think I have fried my ears with sensory overload today, because with careful listening back at home that night, with the Predator, Pico, D2 Viper, D2 Boa and HR Micro Stack (TTVJ battery needs a charge) I found that I am very pleased with all of them, and their differences are less than their similarities. The differences when feeding them via analog input from the same source (my iMod with Vcap dock) are even less. The Predator still has a big sound and bass delivery that brings it closest to the impact of the TTVJ in terms of feeling like a desktop amp, but not quite.
However, I could be happy to have any one of these as my only USB DAC amp right now (although I might change my mind tomorrow). The HD600 and RS-1 are good with any of these USB DAC amps at this moment, while I switch from amp to amp. If we're only considering these few miniature USB DAC Amps that I have on hand tonight, for both iPod and computer, I'd still pick the Predator first, the D2 Viper second, the Pico third and the Boa fourth - but they are so close that none of them are losers. I consider the TTVJ/USB DAC Cable and Micro Stack to be more in the "transportable laptop use" category, although the TTVJ or Micro Amp could be strapped to an iPod Classic and not be terribly out of place.
Scott: Does this mean you're gonna sell me that TTVJ now?
Larry: Ummm, lemme think about it a minute....
...no
Scott and Larry in Harmony Well, that’s the end of this edition of “The Headphone Guys” - next time we’ll focus more on taking specific notes regarding what details on which songs we heard and like/disliked. Maybe this sounds like a no-brainer, but we get carried away theorizing and discussing while the details/data gathering gets short shrift.
