[Videoshielded]

There's been some debate about comparing equivalent priced CD and vinyl decks lately. Thought I'd share my recent experience.

I have pretty good ears and a CD rig that I'm pretty happy with. Sensitive speakers, 300B monoblocks, and a tube preamp, all of my own making, that I have tweaked out to my satisfaction and the Ah! 4000 CDP.

I've also had a MMF-5 table with the stock cart in the system for a while. I've avoided making any studied comparrison between the vinyl and CD sources, because the table was properly set up but my phono stage was not up to the quality of the other things in the chain. I just enjoyed the vinyl for what it was -- which was pretty enjoyable, for sure.

I recently finished building a tube phono stage, a well-regarded design favored by many long-time vinyl junkies. It's broken in now, so I've started comparing CD to vinyl more deliberately. At this point, the vinyl and CD hardware is pretty much equivalent price-wise. I have an audiophile repress of "Time Out" and the CBS remastered redbook CD to compare.

So far there are things I like about the vinyl. It can seem more involving at times, and the odd stray pop doesn't bug me at all. But so far, the soundstaging isn't "oh my god" better than the Ah!, which is pretty great. And the vinyl isn't doing as well as the Ah! in the detail and image department, probably because I'm getting less treble information from the vinyl.

I'm reserving judgment for the time being. I want to put Auricaps in the RIAA EQ network in the phono stage, and maybe replace the plate load resistors with a constant current source. My experience has been these changes really sharpen up the resolution of tube gear.

But this is just what I hear with my ears. You might hear something else with yours.

 

[Videoshielded]

More data:

I spent a little time comparing a used LP copy of "Aja" to an 80's-vintage CD of the same.

It may not be fair for me to compare the LP reissue of "Time Out" to the CD remaster.

The difference in treble information between the LP and CD of "Aja" is nowhere near as big as it is with the "Time Out" comparrison.

Also, the soundstaging on the LP "Aja" is much, much better than the CD, and the imaging is a fair bit better. The bass on the LP has more heft, too. The LP still sounds slightly congested compared to the CD, but there's a decent chance that's because I haven't re-capped the EQ network in the phono stage yet.

I listen mainly to well-recoreded recent CD's or remasters. Maybe this has something to do with my good opinion of CD playback.

I have the remastered "Aja" CD, too -- maybe I'll drag it out and compare it to the LP. A while ago I compared it to the 80's version of the CD, and I remember thinking it was much better.

 

[Theresamarie1]

Quote:

Originally posted by Videoshielded More data: I spent a little time comparing a used LP copy of "Aja" to an 80's-vintage CD of the same. It may not be fair for me to compare the LP reissue of "Time Out" to the CD remaster. The difference in treble information between the LP and CD of "Aja" is nowhere near as big as it is with the "Time Out" comparrison. Also, the soundstaging on the LP "Aja" is much, much better than the CD, and the imaging is a fair bit better. The bass on the LP has more heft, too. The LP still sounds slightly congested compared to the CD, but there's a decent chance that's because I haven't re-capped the EQ network in the phono stage yet. I listen mainly to well-recoreded recent CD's or remasters. Maybe this has something to do with my good opinion of CD playback. I have the remastered "Aja" CD, too -- maybe I'll drag it out and compare it to the LP. A while ago I compared it to the 80's version of the CD, and I remember thinking it was much better.

That's really interesting.. I bought the Aja and Time out as a couple of my "reintroduction to Vinyl" albums.
I would second the impressiveness of the Aja album.. Wow!

 

[Videoshielded]

More data:

I eased up on the cart tracking force a little this weekend. The Goldring 1012GX that comes with the MMF-5 has a tracking range of 1.5 to 2. I had been running it at 1.7, as recommended by Music Hall.

I cranked it back to 1.4 and things really opened up a whole lot. The soundstage has gotten better, and the treble and "presence" are back up to what I would expect.

This is starting to get interesting. For the first time, my vinyl front end is getting good enough that I can tell big differences between well-recorded albums and badly-recorded ones.

I can't wait to re-cap the phono stage and see what I get.

 

[stuartr]

Yeah, I have an MMF-9, and I noticed that it sounded better with less tracking force than Music Hall recommended...maybe it is a house preference or something...or maybe they are just trying to be safe...

 

[Videoshielded]

I finally replaced the passive EQ capacitors in the phono stage with Auricaps.

This has made a huge improvement. The detail retrieval is increased, and finer treble details are coming into focus. I'm getting the kind of involved, musical sound I have been missing.

I listened to LPs a bunch this weekend. It is becoming difficult to decide which I like better -- CD or LP.

 

[Music Fanatic]

Time Out is on SACD, and it would be interesting to add that to your comparison.

 

[Videoshielded]

I'm now five months into the CD versus LP thing.

I'm not listening to many CDs. Mostly LPs.

I had been unhappy with my cart setup and wasn't getting playback that was as well-tracked or quiet as I wanted. Tried various record cleaning regimes, up to and including now using a record cleaning machine, but that wasn't fixing it. I fiddled with the cart setup endlessly, trying three different protractors and the HFNR test record.

Finally, on impulse, I tried a new cart. This particular model is very boxy and brightly colored, unlike the stock Goldring. That made it easy to set up because it has parallel edges I can match up to the protractor lines easily. Anyway, it really did the trick. Noise dropped way down, and tracking went way up. It sounds really great, either through headphones or speakers.

At this point, I feel like newly recorded CD's have the potential to sound much better than CD's from the 80's and 90's. There are some that I enjoy a little more than the original vinyl versions of a recording. The CD soundstaging and imaging are good, and of course they are quiet and detailed. But otherwise, on anything except the newest titles, I usually like the vinyl more. The frequency extremes and detail are comparable to the CD, and the soundstaging and "involvement" factor is much higher on the LPs.

Oh by the way, a record cleaning machine gets my records sounding much better than the Orbitrac did -- which it should, considering a machine costs at least four times as much. The Orbitrac does a pretty good job, though, if you just don't have the cash.

 

[Videoshielded]

More on this subject.

I replaced the MMF-5 with a VPI Scout over a year ago. That blew the original premise of this test - comparable cost between the CD and LP equipment - way out of whack.

The Scout is a great table, much better than the MMF-5. It just does everything better. Well, with one exception. The Scout comes uncovered. The VPI dust cover is reasonably priced, but it doesn't cover the deck well enough to keep your cleaning lady from trashing your cart. Ask me how I know . . . sigh. I've now spent the $279 for the Ginko table-top cover that secures everything adequately.

I recently changed carts to the Audio Technica OC9 (version II) and a pair of Lundhal step-up transformers. This is awesome. The cart isn't even broken in, and it does everything a CD lover could ask plus more. The bass is even better than the bass from my CDP. But, I'm now at around $2300 for LP playback, versus whatever they're charging for the Ah! player these days -- $750?

I wonder what a $2300 CDP sounds like? Maybe I should spend $350 on the Ah! upsampler board and just tell myself it sounds like a $2300 CDP, since that's what the reviewers claim.

 

[The Smokester]

Videoshielded,
Nice to track your vinyl adventure throught time. My first thought was that the Classic Records reissue of "Time Out" is notoriously attenuated in the high frequencies but now I notice it has been over two years so you must know that by now.

The new vinyl by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab are mind boggling...Try David Alvin's "Blackjack Dave" or Madeleine Peyroux's "Careless Love". I also really like the 45rpm's of Patricia Barber's albums particularly "Modern Cool" and "Cafe Blue" (or the original 33's for that matter).

I have found that the best vinyl beats the cd or sacd. However, digital is getting much better than it used to be...On one album--"In Blue" by Karrin Allyson--many of us think that the cd and sacd layers are better than the vinyl. That appears to be an exception, though.

Happy listening.

 

[mrzero63]

Videoshielded, welcome to VPI - though it has been a year for you! I recently acquired a new Scout myself - with JMW9/DV 1.5 cart. Oh the goosebumps! It totally blows away my tube-output CD (Minimax). The soundstage and bass are AMAZING. Aja (a simple first pressing I have) sounds quite remarkable and alive. But I must confess, I have a complete analogue rig (Mac C-20, Mac MC-225, Heresy II, Tascam 122 Mk III, VPI Scout, MiniMax CD). The reality of a Suzanne Vega performance brings me back to Philly's Chestnut Cafe back in '85 when I witnessed her on stage. Now I listen to her premiere, self-titled LP. It is like being on stage (I could only imagine as I had 12th-row center gems). To inaugurate the VPI, I purchased a new 180 gm Vega LP. Much much better than the comparable CD I have (unfortunately, it is not a MFSL gold CD). Fortunately, my C-20 has an awesome phono stage, so I don't really concern myself with outboard units. I can only guess what the VPI will sound like after 100 hours! OH!

For me (I realize this can get quite subjective), vinyl is king!

 

[Black Stuart]

You all realise that new vinyl has been through a digital process, so cannot compare to pre1981 releases.

Having said that - if you want to hear bass, check out Enigma -Sadness part 1 on Virgin(90)/ Mad Max, Beyond Thunderdome from the film (85)/ Steele Pulse - Prediction from Island (78). These are all 45 RPM - in fact most 45s will blow CD clear out of the water.

Check out the Pickering XV -15 this is a great little cartridge at a silly price. or the DNM Reson Mica or Rica.

Don't forget VGC pre 81 vinyl.

Stuart

 

[883dave]

Not all new vinyl has been throught digital process...

Check out the work of Steve Hoffman..he uses original master TAPES then remasters them using Tubes