Cayin HA-300MK2 (2022) TOTL Transformer coupled Direct Heated Triode Tube HeadAmp (Page 91)
Sep 7, 2023 at 12:07 AM Post #4,171 of 6,216
Just curious - can someone please explain why rectifier tubes in Cayin would affect the sound?
I kinda understand the idea for an integrated amp where say 274B is replaced with a more powerful tube to get better power supply effectively. But i am not clear why would it matter in an HF amp given mickey mouse current we drive through planar HF in the worst case.
Thank you!
The heart of any amp is the power supply. Years ago, it was thought that if the voltage is rectified, job done. But the power supply is the heart and with rectifier tubes, there is a little bit of different in the way they do their job, even if the same spec as there is metallurgy involved, how hard the vacuum is and a bunch of other factors. One reason the Japanese tubes are so good is because they did hard vacuums. The tube ends up sounding different and lasts longer.
 
Sep 7, 2023 at 2:45 AM Post #4,172 of 6,216
I was in the same boat with EQ for a few years, I stopped using EQ about 1.5 years ago when I started "finishing my system". I think both approaches are valid (using EQ and not using EQ). EQ allows you to compensate and often create sound that just wouldn't be possible without it ... but the cost is last 15% of performance you have to sacrifice (purity you could say).

That's why most people result to having "a system per headphone" (or speaker), to get exactly the sound they want. It takes time, it takes money, experience etc. going into taboo subjects like cables, power conditioning etc. but you can totally fine tune a system to be exactly how you want it, and then even better ... is it better than using EQ? you get that extra 10-15% performance from my experience, but you sacrifice flexibility and have to invest more and limit yourself. That's where tube gear proves to be invaluable, because you can fine tune (sometimes completely change and adapt) the same gear for many drivers.

I generally try to have a solid digita + dac + pure pre (hence May dac + Bliss as pre) and then an amp per headphone or speakers. If I can get away with one amp pairing with more than one driver then it's a massive bonus : ) I generally have Bliss for TC, HA300MK2 for Utopia and AN Vindicator for speakers ... but HA300MK2 drives speakers and TC great as well as a bonus, it really can be a jack of all trades and actually a master of all trades even when swapping out the tubes, cabling etc.
Theres no EQ'ing soundstage. Tubes either have in spades or they don't.
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 3:46 AM Post #4,173 of 6,216
For me Cayin amps have non linear volume (tend to change FR and dynamics slightly) and tend to have a sweetspot arund 2pm ish ... so I set the volume on pre to be relaively low and "search" for the sweetspot on the Cayin. Its a trial and error thing for me.
I would say if you want to go more than 12pm on this amp you really need a preamp. I didnt notice until now how big were the volume steps on the amp, but with the preamp I can adjust precisely and find a sweet spot easily like you said.

Also, I have pulled the triger on the Quad CV6 with the two adapters, coming in 2-3 weeks, hopefully I dont mess the amp. Thinking yet on which will be the 300B (deciding between Elrogs and WE300B is so hard)

At last, I am searching affordable speakers for the HA-300, and I think these are good for the small room where I listen, about 10m^2: https://www.supersonido.es/p/klipsch-rp-600m Its in Spanish but they have price drop because end of the line, for newcoming models. Is that a bargain or there are better options? (or these speakers are not proper for amp)
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 9:26 AM Post #4,174 of 6,216
I would say if you want to go more than 12pm on this amp you really need a preamp. I didnt notice until now how big were the volume steps on the amp, but with the preamp I can adjust precisely and find a sweet spot easily like you said.

Also, I have pulled the triger on the Quad CV6 with the two adapters, coming in 2-3 weeks, hopefully I dont mess the amp. Thinking yet on which will be the 300B (deciding between Elrogs and WE300B is so hard)

At last, I am searching affordable speakers for the HA-300, and I think these are good for the small room where I listen, about 10m^2: https://www.supersonido.es/p/klipsch-rp-600m Its in Spanish but they have price drop because end of the line, for newcoming models. Is that a bargain or there are better options? (or these speakers are not proper for amp)
I'd guess it depends on which of your headphones you're using regarding that, but bear in mind that some swapping of the impedance can help with this. Did you get the CV6 to replace the 6SN7? Is it a like for like replacement?
Changing the 6SN7 will be a bigger difference/upgrade in sound than the 300b. Having said that the Elrogs are likely to give a different sound than the WE from what I understand. The WE will be more akin to the Gold Lions than the Elrogs.
The Klipsch should be ok if you are in a small room and you are not playing at a loud volume.
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 9:39 AM Post #4,175 of 6,216
I would say if you want to go more than 12pm on this amp you really need a preamp. I didnt notice until now how big were the volume steps on the amp, but with the preamp I can adjust precisely and find a sweet spot easily like you said.

Also, I have pulled the triger on the Quad CV6 with the two adapters, coming in 2-3 weeks, hopefully I dont mess the amp. Thinking yet on which will be the 300B (deciding between Elrogs and WE300B is so hard)

At last, I am searching affordable speakers for the HA-300, and I think these are good for the small room where I listen, about 10m^2: https://www.supersonido.es/p/klipsch-rp-600m Its in Spanish but they have price drop because end of the line, for newcoming models. Is that a bargain or there are better options? (or these speakers are not proper for amp)
96db sensitivity is great for speakers and ideal for tube amps. With 300b you could get away with 93 as well I would say. My speakers are around 95 and they get loud in a slightly bigger room when the amp is showing around 45% voltage usage ... so A LOT of headroom left. My TC is showing over 80% utilisation with similar volume :wink:

Get the best speakers you can afford for this amp, its worth it.
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 9:46 AM Post #4,176 of 6,216
96db sensitivity is great for speakers and ideal for tube amps. With 300b you could get away with 93 as well I would say. My speakers are around 95 and they get loud in a slightly bigger room when the amp is showing around 45% voltage usage ... so A LOT of headroom left. My TC is showing over 80% utilisation with similar volume :wink:

Get the best speakers you can afford for this amp, its worth it.
I think you are correct that 96dB is optimal for the Cayin. I have a moderately big living room and speakers with much lower sensitivity are just not efficient enough. You also have to pay attention to the manufacturer claims I tried some KLH and Klipsch and found them to be overstated on their sensitivity and I've seen reviews where they reckon Klipsch are routinely overstated by around 3-4dB.
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 9:53 AM Post #4,177 of 6,216
I think you are correct that 96dB is optimal for the Cayin. I have a moderately big living room and speakers with much lower sensitivity are just not efficient enough. You also have to pay attention to the manufacturer claims I tried some KLH and Klipsch and found them to be overstated on their sensitivity and I've seen reviews where they reckon Klipsch are routinely overstated by around 3-4dB.
Yeah that's true for all manufacturers, I would do -3db on all claims, so around 90-91 db "real" efficiency should be perfect, 93-95 claimed :wink:
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 10:42 AM Post #4,178 of 6,216
Rolled in a quad of Mullard VR135's this morning, as well as a quad of Japanese Black Plate 22DE4's, and paired with the Elrog's this is some seriously good sound. There is detail in spades, euphonic texture, harmonic richness, weight, impact, and air in the mids and highs that makes the stage expand and the headphones disappear. The way the Mullard's do layering and staging with sounds that expand way out for what seems like forever and then with some right in front of you and then the rest everywhere in between, is truly magical. Not quite sure how to put it into words, but while listening it's like I am on a journey or ride through sound if that makes any sense :thinking:. . .Talk about immersive!

I had not rolled these tubes in a good while, and damn the Mullard's really are incredible! @jonchard I can see why you like them so much.

Also, running a full quad of Japanese Black Plate 22DE4's adds some serious weight and punch down low (the bass can take your head off and you can literally feel the rumble), and seems to double down on everything else the Mullard's have to offer.

Got to love a good tube roll! :grin:


Those looking for one of the best options out there for driver tubes, it's really hard to beat a well testing quad of Mullard VR135/CV6. Also, if you ever come across a Black Plate 22DE4 buy it.


Back to musical bliss. . .
 
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Sep 9, 2023 at 11:36 AM Post #4,179 of 6,216
Rolled in a quad of Mullard VR135's this morning, as well as a quad of Japanese Black Plate 22DE4's, and paired with the Elrog's this is some seriously good sound. There is detail in spades, euphonic texture, harmonic richness, weight, impact, and air in the mids and highs that makes the stage expand and the headphones disappear. The way the Mullard's do layering and staging with sounds that expand way out for what seems like forever and then with some right in front of you and then the rest everywhere in between, is truly magical. Not quite sure how to put it into words, but while listening it's like I am on a journey or ride through sound if that makes any sense :thinking:. . .Talk about immersive!

I had not rolled these tubes in a good while, and damn the Mullard's really are incredible! @jonchard I can see why you like them so much.

Also, running a full quad of Japanese Black Plate 22DE4's adds some serious weight and punch down low (the bass can take your head off and you can literally feel the rumble), and seems to double down on everything else the Mullard's have to offer.

Got to love a good tube roll! :grin:


Those looking for one of the best options out there for driver tubes, it's really hard to beat a well testing quad of Mullard VR135/CV6. Also, if you ever come across a Black Plate 22DE4 buy it.


Back to musical bliss. . .
i think we would all appreciate a picture of ur amp before u go back to listening :dt880smile:
 
Sep 9, 2023 at 11:58 AM Post #4,180 of 6,216
i think we would all appreciate a picture of ur amp before u go back to listening :dt880smile:
Ask and you shall receive. :wink:

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Sep 9, 2023 at 3:37 PM Post #4,181 of 6,216
Just checking back in to say, my VC's are literally vibrating on my head from the subbass right now! :astonished: For reference, this is the track I am listening to, Aleksi Perala - FI3AC2382040 - Alithia B'. Interesting song title no doubt, but a really cool track nonetheless. Listening with my VC's (dynamic headphones) they sound like a planer/dynamic hybrid with the new tube combo I just rolled, and the Japanese made Black Plate 22DE4's have elevated the performance of this amp, and the speed, grip and bass I am getting now is flat out insane. I am not exaggerating, my VC's feel and sound like a wooden instrument resonating strapped to my head, as they vibrate on my ears with super tight and textured bass that goes deep like a planar, and the immersiveness is in full effect. This is an incredible experience, and I feel like I am definitely getting speed, detail, grip and bass slam like a good SS, with midrange bloom, euphonic texture, note weight, harmonic richness and last but definitely not least staging of good tube amp. Speaking of staging, it goes so far out in all directions it makes the headphones seemingly disappear. The images are huge and lifelike, and the tone and timbre is to die for and everything just sounds so right and real. I seriously love this amp, and the more I have gotten to know it, the more it continues to blow my mind with its performance.

Tube combo of dreams listed below.

Power Tubes - Elrog ER300B
Driver Tubes - Mullard (Mitcham) Black Plate VR135 - Quad with adapters
Rectifiers - Japanese made Black Plate 22DE4

This is the track pictured below, that sounds insane with this amp and my VC's, of which gets a big rec from me. If you like Electronica and especially like good bass, you might just dig this one. NOTE - make sure the volume is turned down low when starting this song and wait for the bass to kick in before you begin turning it up too loud, as the bass could possibly blow drivers if the volume is too high. The recording quality of this song (entire album) is just incredible and the dynamic range is off the charts. You have been warned, and get ready for a ride on some bass waves. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

ZqMBauB.png
 
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Sep 9, 2023 at 11:01 PM Post #4,182 of 6,216
Today I did tried another pair of Mullard ( Chelmer Mullard CV181) is sound a little bit extension of both end especially on airy, if you looking for details this is a very good choice.
IMG_0121 3.jpg
 
Sep 10, 2023 at 2:37 PM Post #4,183 of 6,216
Get the best speakers you can afford for this amp, its worth it.

I am not really a speaker guy, the best speakers I have had in my life is the Edifier 350 for TV in the living room, really affordable unit and I am happy with them, just to watch some movies or series and that, I dont feel I need more. Soo the klipsch as an entry unit for my room (office/bedroom), I think is fine. Maybe one day when I have a house with more rooms, my wife let me dedicate one of them to Hifi and I can invest in a good pair of speakers, hehehe
 
Sep 10, 2023 at 3:02 PM Post #4,184 of 6,216
I have some Klipsch Chorus speakers, the 1st ones, that I highly modified (cabinet, wiring, crossovers, caps (caps were junk). and they sound superb but they are 1000 miles away in storage at my daughters. Easy to drive, transparent, throw a huge sound field, excellent bass. Some of the best I have ever heard. But alas, they are not here. :^)
 
Sep 10, 2023 at 5:23 PM Post #4,185 of 6,216
Just added the 300B socket savers/risers to the amp, and I am extremely happy with the results. The Elrog's bases are flush and level with the rest of the sockets in the amp now, and tube rolling going forward will be a breeze. Another added benefit, is they are higher up now from the chassis and get better ventilation as well.

I highly recommended them, and these are the one's I bought. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011987107...VfNWCSSTQa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
They are super high quality heavy ceramic bases with gold plated connections. The Elrog's seated smooth and firmly into the sockets, and it really can't get any better if you ask me. These look very similar to the quality one's that Woo Audio sells for a lot more.

Screenshot_20230910_162144_eBay.jpg


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I also, rolled back in a quad of Russian 6C8C 54', and they sound incredible paired up with a full quad of Japanese 22DE4 Black Plates. The Russian's really are every bit as good but also completely different compared to the Mullard and GEC VR135/CV6. It's awesome having such amazing options. The GEC VR135 are also fantastic as well, and are up on deck. Having those 3 options for driver tubes is just flat out awesome.
 
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