Can you help me to better my setup? (Headphones, DAP, Amp, Tidal/Flac)

[belafan]

hello, i would like to better my sound-setup, but it's hard to learn how to do it.

currently i'm playing my music over my sony 1000xm2 headphones wired to my samsung tablet with tidal hifi/master.
if i don't want to spend more than 1000 usd. is there any chance to better my setup, or would the difference only be nuances?

what would make the most difference: new headphones? good dap instead of the samsung tablet? a headphone-amp? flac files instead of tidal hifi/master? or do i need to change everything to hear a real difference?

thank's a lot for your help.

 

[go_vtec]

You may want to read little bit on following link where similar things were answered for different questions (does DAC make differences). On these topic, headphones were to be the most important ingredients, then amps (in certain cases), and the source (DACs).
Some relevant discussion on priorities or importance on headphones, amp, dac, and cables.

 

[go_vtec]

One thing you need to tell the folks is whether you want a portable setup or office/home setup. For office home setup, getting a pair of wired highend headphones, then possibly adding a dac/amp combo would probably give you most bang for the bucks. If you want a portable, then you will need to spend sometimes to learn about IEMs and other headphones for portable use, then tell us about more desired quality in audio that you are trying to achieve.

 

[belafan]

thanks for your fast answers go_vtec.
i will read through the other thread, thank you.
i would like to use the setup at home, lying in the bed or on the couch.

to describe the quality, is hard for me, because except on concerts, i never experienced sound better than the quality i get from my current setup. i listen to pinky floyd, beatles and other rock music a lot. i was flashed by the details and space, when i changed from cheap headphones and spotify to the 1000xm2 and tidal hifi/master. it would be great to even get another step higher and get flashed again. do you think this would be possible for less than 1000 bucks? or how would the setup need to look like, to get flashed again?

 

[go_vtec]

I think doing it with $1000 for home-use is quite doable. However, you will need to understand what your preferred sonic signature is like. For this, if you ever attended a local Head-fi meet in the past, it would have been a perfect opportunity to sample headphones and gears costing hundreds to thousands of dollars to figure out what is that you want that you can actually afford without spending money. Obviously, COIVD-19 changed all that from possibility for unforeseen future. What do you think about your Sony wired or wirelessly. Did you find them to be bright, bass-shy, mid-shy (lack of vocal), or cold sounding in general?

 

[PurpleAngel]

hello, i would like to better my sound-setup, but it's hard to learn how to do it.

currently i'm playing my music over my Sony 1000xm2 headphones wired to my Samsung tablet with tidal hifi/master.
if i don't want to spend more than 1000 USD. is there any chance to better my setup, or would the difference only be nuances?

what would make the most difference: new headphones? good dap instead of the Samsung tablet? a headphone-amp? FLAC files instead of tidal Hi-Fi/master? or do i need to change everything to hear a real difference?

thank's a lot for your help.

So your using IEMs (Sony 1000xm2) that can work both wireless (Bluetooth) and wired, and using currently connecting (wired) the IEMs to the headphone jack on the Samsung (Android) tablet?
A Schiit Fulla 3 DAC/amp, with an A/C to USB power adapter, might improve audio quality?
I would suggest any DAC/amp, that would not use the battery power of the tablet.

 

[go_vtec]

So your using IEMs (Sony 1000xm2) that can work both wireless (Bluetooth) and wired, and using currently connecting (wired) the IEMs to the headphone jack on the Samsung (Android) tablet?
A Schiit Fulla 3 DAC/amp, with an A/C to USB power adapter, might improve audio quality?
I would suggest any DAC/amp, that would not use the battery power of the tablet.

I wasn't sure if the original poster is using the headphones (WH-1000XM2) or true wireless (WF-1000XMx) since the poster only listed 1000XM2. I assume the poster has WH-1000XM2 where he/she should be able to connect with either bluetooth or by 3.5mm jack.

 

[belafan]

I think doing it with $1000 for home-use is quite doable. However, you will need to understand what your preferred sonic signature is like. For this, if you ever attended a local Head-fi meet in the past, it would have been a perfect opportunity to sample headphones and gears costing hundreds to thousands of dollars to figure out what is that you want that you can actually afford without spending money. Obviously, COIVD-19 changed all that from possibility for unforeseen future. What do you think about your Sony wired or wirelessly. Did you find them to be bright, bass-shy, mid-shy (lack of vocal), or cold sounding in general?

Thanks. The thing is, I don't know what I am looking for at the moment, as I don't have any experiece. I just want to bring the sound "on the next level".
What I'm searching for, is a warm rock sound with a lot of details, separation and space.
And like you said, due to Covid I can't go in a store. Everything closed here in Switzerland.

So your using IEMs (Sony 1000xm2) that can work both wireless (Bluetooth) and wired, and using currently connecting (wired) the IEMs to the headphone jack on the Samsung (Android) tablet?
A Schiit Fulla 3 DAC/amp, with an A/C to USB power adapter, might improve audio quality?
I would suggest any DAC/amp, that would not use the battery power of the tablet.

Its the WH-1000xm2 (nc).
Thanks for your suggestion of the DAC. Do you think the dac will bring my sound to the next level?
I'm more leaning towards a DAP like the FiiO M11Pro. I can have a used one for around 500.
Am right that the DAP has a DAC inside, so I don't need to buy an additional DAC?

I would try the M11Pro with my current headphones and maybe when Covid is over, I will try out some better headphones.
After some research I like the Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro or 1770 pro, the Denon AH-7200, or the Audeze LCD2-Classic.
What do you think of them? Are they good for the M11Pro?

Thank you.

 

[surfgeorge]

Thanks. The thing is, I don't know what I am looking for at the moment, as I don't have any experiece. I just want to bring the sound "on the next level".
What I'm searching for, is a warm rock sound with a lot of details, separation and space.
And like you said, due to Covid I can't go in a store. Everything closed here in Switzerland.



Its the WH-1000xm2 (nc).
Thanks for your suggestion of the DAC. Do you think the dac will bring my sound to the next level?
I'm more leaning towards a DAP like the FiiO M11Pro. I can have a used one for around 500.
Am right that the DAP has a DAC inside, so I don't need to buy an additional DAC?

I would try the M11Pro with my current headphones and maybe when Covid is over, I will try out some better headphones.
After some research I like the Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro or 1770 pro, the Denon AH-7200, or the Audeze LCD2-Classic.
What do you think of them? Are they good for the M11Pro?

Thank you.

If you like your current headphones I'd also recommend getting a DAC/AMP to improve your setup.
Personally I consider these as important as the headphone, and in my setups the DAC/Amp is usually the most expensive component.

It would be best if you could find a way to listen to a DAC/Amp as good as possible for some time to hear the difference for yourself and figure out how important it is to you.
Personally I am a big fan of the CHORD products, Chord Mojo is great value IMO. But any good setup will do for first experiences.

 

[belafan]

If you like your current headphones I'd also recommend getting a DAC/AMP to improve your setup.
Personally I consider these as important as the headphone, and in my setups the DAC/Amp is usually the most expensive component.

It would be best if you could find a way to listen to a DAC/Amp as good as possible for some time to hear the difference for yourself and figure out how important it is to you.
Personally I am a big fan of the CHORD products, Chord Mojo is great value IMO. But any good setup will do for first experiences.

So you would buy a dac instead of a dap?

what do you guys think of the headphones i mentioned?

 

[go_vtec]

Sony WH-1000xm series has pretty good sound for bluetooth headphones and not too bad for 3.5mm jack. However, you can get substantially better sound quality headphone systems for $1K. For what you described, Audeze LCD-2 may be within your budget. However, for general rock songs, I think Audeze LCD-X would be better fit, but it cost significantly more. However, both models do cost significantly and will exceed your budget if you were to get new and buy M11Pro. If you were at US, you could buy an used LCD-2 for around $500-600 and LCD-X for $800-850. A properly driven planar magnetic headphones do sound significantly airier, offers more details, and also has the noticeable impact for hard hitting bass. In a used market, LCD-2 with used MOJO or other DAC/amp combo would be a good investment with the noticeably better sound characteristics and quality.

A portable DAP with a good pair of headphones is another way to go so that you can add an IEM later for ultra portable rig. However, the most of DAPs do not have substantially powerul amp sections so your headphone selection should be limited to easy to medium hard to drive headphones. Beyerdynamic and Denon are reasonably good dynamic headphones and some models are easier to drive then the others. Beyerdynamic headphones you've listed will be more difficult to drive with low power DAPs, but good DAPs should be able to drive them pretty decently.

 

[HBen]

At this price point the by far biggest impact is made by the headphones. There are lots of options in this price range that could be a substatial improvement if you are going for open back over ear headphones.

If you want to stick to noice cancelling or closed over ear headphones I would't even bother to try to improve - imo it's just not worth it.
If you can't go for open ears your second best way is to go down the IEM route.

Amps are getting more important the more difficult to drive and the better the headphones are. When it comes to DAC's I think most of the stuff below around 500$ is pretty much not worth it... better just stick with your current source or go straight for a DAP.

To your question: Every DAP has a DAC inside ... actually also your smartphone, tablet and laptop have a DAC inside (like any device that has plays digital files and has an analog output jack or a built in speaker etc.) , probably just not a very good one

 

[moskwiz]

My ten cents.
Tidal Hi-Fi is severley limited in sound quality when played through an Android smartphone's official Tidal app (like I understand you are doing?). This is because Android OS has a forced sample rate of 16bit 48khz and no MQA - whatever signal the Tidal app is outputting, it will get resampled to this. Further more phone's own built-in DACs are all crap.
The cheapest way to get around this and achieve "the next level," for me was to
1) buy a DAC-dongle for the smartphone. There's a bunch of them, I use Zorloo Ztella MQA (~90€) or iBasso DC03 (~50€) but basically any portable DAC can be attached to a phone with the right cable. You could go Chord Mojo etc).
2) buy a third party Android app that has its own USB driver and can circumvent Android OS sampling. One of the more popular ones (and one I use aswell) is UAPP - USB Audio Player Pro. It's a one time purchase of around 8€ (+ optional 2.5€ for MQA module) and it has Tidal integration.

Minimum total cost starting from 60€. It definitely gave me the "next level sound" chills once I got it set up, compared to listening to Tidal HiFi through the phone's own built-in DAC.
Then you can start thinking about getting a new pair of headphones. I think WH1000-XM2 wired is not the weakest link in your setup right now.
But if you want to stay on BT, then I guess a DAP would be the cheapest way to go "next level."?

 

[belafan]

This is so usefull, thank you guys.

However, the most of DAPs do not have substantially powerul amp sections so your headphone selection should be limited to easy to medium hard to drive headphones. Beyerdynamic and Denon are reasonably good dynamic headphones and some models are easier to drive then the others. Beyerdynamic headphones you've listed will be more difficult to drive with low power DAPs, but good DAPs should be able to drive them pretty decently.

So would it make sense to still add a DAC to drive the headphones, when going with the FiiO M11Pro?

At this price point the by far biggest impact is made by the headphones. There are lots of options in this price range that could be a substatial improvement if you are going for open back over ear headphones.

I definitely would like to try out open backs. Sennheiser HD660S (USD 450), Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro (USD 450), Audeze LCD-2 (USD 800) are possible options at the moment in Switzerland.

My ten cents.
Tidal Hi-Fi is severley limited in sound quality when played through an Android smartphone's official Tidal app (like I understand you are doing?). This is because Android OS has a forced sample rate of 16bit 48khz and no MQA - whatever signal the Tidal app is outputting, it will get resampled to this. Further more phone's own built-in DACs are all crap.
The cheapest way to get around this and achieve "the next level," for me was to
1) buy a DAC-dongle for the smartphone. There's a bunch of them, I use Zorloo Ztella MQA (~90€) or iBasso DC03 (~50€) but basically any portable DAC can be attached to a phone with the right cable. You could go Chord Mojo etc).
2) buy a third party Android app that has its own USB driver and can circumvent Android OS sampling. One of the more popular ones (and one I use aswell) is UAPP - USB Audio Player Pro. It's a one time purchase of around 8€ (+ optional 2.5€ for MQA module) and it has Tidal integration.

Minimum total cost starting from 60€. It definitely gave me the "next level sound" chills once I got it set up, compared to listening to Tidal HiFi through the phone's own built-in DAC.
Then you can start thinking about getting a new pair of headphones. I think WH1000-XM2 wired is not the weakest link in your setup right now.
But if you want to stay on BT, then I guess a DAP would be the cheapest way to go "next level."?

That's a great explanation. I was tending towards the DAP, because I heared about the Tidal Android problem. But if ths problem can be fixed that easy, this gets an option again. So the Tidal integration in the UAPP means I open the Tidal App throug UAPP and have better sound quality? I guess this option would be cheaper at the moment. The DACs you mentioned aren't available in Switzerland. Are the FiiO Q1Mark2 or the FiiO K3 also good options? They cost around USD 130.

Now I have two opinions: HBen says it's better to go with a DAP, because DACs under 500 aren't good. And moskwiz says the DAC option got him on the next level, even it were cheaper DACs. What option should I go with?

If I buy a FiiO Q1Mark2 or FiiO K3 DAC now, and go with the UAPP app option. Is this DAC still usefull if I buy a DAP after a while? to better the sound or to drive the headphones? Maybe I will do it like that and buy good open backs now and a cheap DAC now and the DAP after a while.

 

[go_vtec]

I think your first priority should be finding out your use case, then which pair of headphones you are most interested in before you start making any decisions. For the best sound quality for the money, nothing really beats a desktop set up especially around $1K. If you already own a PC or device that can send uncompromed data via a USB, you only need to pick a pair of headphones, then DAC/Amp to finish the job. In this case, you will spend 60-80% of you funds to buy a headphone, then spend rest of your money for a DAC/AMP.

If you need a portable set up, then you will need to look for more portable or closed cans or IEMs. If you cannot use your phone or tablet to provide music without too much compromise (convenience, data-loss, or bitrate loss), then you can consider getting a DAP plus IEMs or portable headphones. A quality DAP can drive most of IEMs or efficient/semi-hard to drive phones without much problem. A less quality DAP will not be able to drive planar magnetic headphones or high impedance cans to their fullest potential, but still better than your current set up. This way, you are more likely to spend 40-70% on DAP and rest on the headphones/IEMs. FiiO Q1MKII is a niche product that works as a okay DAC/AMP, but not the best use of your money unless you buy $900 not too sensitive IEMs and you want to drive them. However, I will not want to use Q1 for home use when you have many other more options with better quality. You also need to think about scalability and expandability. Do you want a flexible system that you can just add any headphones later or you will need to sell your current gears to accommodate future gears. Trust me, if you are into audio and you keep reading this forum, you will end up spending some more money on home setup and portable setup with multiple headphones and IEMs. If you make a smart purchase now, you can minimize hassles of selling your gears and trying to replace inadequate gears in very near future. Try to figure out what is that your really want and how will you use them (home, office, or on the go) to maximize your investment on audio gears.