[alexk0il]

Looking to upgrade my KC2, they were kind of OK especially PEQ-Ed to Crinacle Netral profile, plus/minus minor adjustments. I also have Ath-m50 monitors that are obviously more capable.

So... Anyone moved on from BQEYZ KC2 to Hexa? Is it a night and day difference or just a minor evolutionary improvement?

Update: I prefer a neutral sound signature, accurate bass, details, clarity and body. Mostly listening to classical, jazz, vocal.

 

[dunring]

The Hexa isn't worth it, going to the 7hz Salnotes Zero:2 would be an improvement, and for music like vocals and acoustic, the Truthear Zero Blue. If you game with them also, then the Moondrop Starfield or Truthear Zero Red.
If you try the Zero:2 I recommend the silver ones. I replaced the Caribbean color tips with black ones and a black multi-kit cable just to tone it down a little. If comfort is a priority, the Truthear Zero blue or red, most comfortable fitting IEMs on the market (have tried 40 or so different ones, those are smooth and rounded off).

 

[alexk0il]

The Hexa isn't worth it, going to the 7hz Salnotes Zero:2 would be an improvement, and for music like vocals and acoustic, the Truthear Zero Blue. If you game with them also, then the Moondrop Starfield or Truthear Zero Red.
If you try the Zero:2 I recommend the silver ones. I replaced the Caribbean color tips with black ones and a black multi-kit cable just to tone it down a little. If comfort is a priority, the Truthear Zero blue or red, most comfortable fitting IEMs on the market (have tried 40 or so different ones, those are smooth and rounded off).

Thanks a lot. I'm a bit new to this, can you please clarify:

1. Do different Zero 2 colors have different sound profiles or is it purely cosmetics?

2. Are you saying Hexa doesn't sound better than Zeros or is it just not worth the extra money?

3. Also, how would S12 rate in this comparison? The cost of S12 and Hexa is identical in the UK. Never had a planar experience in the past, I remember reading planar are difficult to drive, could be a challenge for a usb audio dongle/cable.

Thanks

 

[KinGensai]

Looking to upgrade my KC2, they were kind of OK especially PEQ-Ed to Crinacle Netral profile, plus/minus minor adjustments. I also have Ath-m50 monitors that are obviously more capable.

Hi. What do you mean when you say more capable? In what way specifically are M50s more capable? Is that the improvement you want by upgrading?

Looks like the KC2 is employing a driver configuration similar to Fiio's FH5s, that's not an insignificant amount of drivers for the price. Do you hear any phase differential between the drivers?

BQEYZ seems to be pretty decent to me, I own their Wind IEM and it's made pretty well technically speaking, so if it's not a phase differential that is the issue, there must be something else you are not happy with.

Be advised, using a PEQ is a personalizing process, what Crinacle says is a neutral tuning is not necessarily going to be a natural sound for you because of how Fletcher-Munson equal loudness works and your unique pinna gain compared to his or a GRAS coupler's pinna.

Update: I prefer a neutral sound signature, accurate bass, details, clarity and body. Mostly listening to classical, jazz, vocal.

This doesn't really help because you aren't providing context. "Neutral" can mean very different things to people because this depends on your HRTF profile, so a flat sounding IEM to one person can be dark/bright to someone else. Details & clarity can mean multiple things, so you should specify if you are after elevated frequency response in 8kHz+ or if you are after an IEM with a short and clean impulse response and low total harmonic distortion. Body is vague, are you referring to the ratio of mid-bass (200Hz to 500Hz) to lower mids (500Hz to 1000Hz)?

It'll be more helpful to people who don't know you if you describe how your IEMs sound to you and what you want changed.

 

[alexk0il]

Hi. What do you mean when you say more capable? In what way specifically are M50s more capable? Is that the improvement you want by upgrading?

1. Clarity/resolution across the whole frequency range.
2. Better stage, 3d
3. Neutrality - tuned to be used as a entry point by professional musicians, but respond well to EQ and can be fun too

KC2s as ok for what they are, but can't match

BQEYZ seems to be pretty decent to me, I own their Wind IEM and it's made pretty well technically speaking, so if it's not a phase differential that is the issue, there must be something else you are not happy with.

Looking to improve #1 and #2, don't really care about the tuning as long as the iems respond well to PEQ. Shouldn't be difficult to find something better than KC2,s right?

Be advised, using a PEQ is a personalizing process, what Crinacle says is a neutral tuning is not necessarily going to be a natural sound for you because of how Fletcher-Munson equal loudness works and your unique pinna gain compared to his or a GRAS coupler's pinna.

Neutral PEQ is a starting point for me, I can make my own setups.

This doesn't really help because you aren't providing context. "Neutral" can mean very different things to people because this depends on your HRTF profile, so a flat sounding IEM to one person can be dark/bright to someone else. Details & clarity can mean multiple things, so you should specify if you are after elevated frequency response in 8kHz+ or if you are after an IEM with a short and clean impulse response and low total harmonic distortion. Body is vague, are you referring to the ratio of mid-bass (200Hz to 500Hz) to lower mids (500Hz to 1000Hz)?

Try listening this track: https://open.spotify.com/track/7J0Pr6fIaM7wwacVFbktnS?si=d839bc3918e546b2

• Neutrality: See if all instruments play together or if for example your base or highs are overwhelming. Do you hear the mids?
• Rsolution and Clarity: See how many instruments can you hear. Can you separate violins from cellos?

KC2s are very far from being perfect here, though they are better than other cheap iems.

 

[KinGensai]

Ok, this is better.

1. Clarity/resolution across the whole frequency range.
2. Better stage, 3d
3. Neutrality - tuned to be used as a entry point by professional musicians, but respond well to EQ and can be fun too

KC2s as ok for what they are, but can't match

Looking to improve #1 and #2, don't really care about the tuning as long as the iems respond well to PEQ. Shouldn't be difficult to find something better than KC2,s right?

1 is definitely solvable, this depends on what your budget is. The KC2 has a gigantic dip at 5k that's likely what is causing issues to your ears. EQ is not sufficient to fix something that drastic, especially on budget drivers, due to likely significant amounts of IMD introduced by the drastic tuning changes required. This is probably due to a crossover network problem from the looks of it so you'll get timbre issues trying to bandage that anyway. The Hexa does not exhibit this problem, so that's probably a better choice tuning wise.

2 is not really dependent on IEMs outside of tuning, you are better served using DSP to solve that. You might simulate reverb with a slow IR and spacing with subtle phase differentials intentionally engineered, but that's IMO not ideal because it doesn't adjust for different masterings, so I'd suggest you just fine tune the pinna gain region until it's just right and hit 3k to 5k with a gentle notch to facilitate the spatial cues in the recording.

For the sub 100 price range, you can try dunring's suggestions I suppose. If you are willing to step up in budget range, I think it's hard to beat the Orchestra Lite until double it's price.

Reason why I think that is because BAs are significantly more accurate than DDs due to a faster and cleaner IR and lower THD in general, but suffer from a lack of SPL and more noticable harmonic distortion due to it being dominated by odd order harmonics. To fix this, you need specialist BAs and complicated crossover networks to make overlapping BA arrays to mitigate odd order harmonics. You need 6 BAs at a bare minimum to minimize odd order harmonics, and at least two in the bass region to hit a relatively ok amount of SPL. The Orchestra Lite packs 8 BAs in for $250, nearly unheard of when it came out, and it sounds quite good as a result.

The Aful Performer 8 is also pretty good for the price, it's a bit more but it packs a DD if you prefer a looser bass response with even order harmonics.

Try listening this track: https://open.spotify.com/track/7J0Pr6fIaM7wwacVFbktnS?si=d839bc3918e546b2

• Neutrality: See if all instruments play together or if for example your base or highs are overwhelming. Do you hear the mids?
• Rsolution and Clarity: See how many instruments can you hear. Can you separate strings from cellos?

KC2s are very far from being perfect here, though they are better than others.

Like I said, neutrality is different for everyone, so what I experience is not useful for you because we don't have a common reference.

Do you have any of these IEMs? Aria snow edition, BQEYZ Wind, Stellaris, FH5s, Orchestra Lite, Variations, Maestro SE, or Anole V14? If you do, what I hear might be useful to you.

 

[alexk0il]

Looking to upgrade my KC2, they were kind of OK especially PEQ-Ed to Crinacle Netral profile, plus/minus minor adjustments. I also have Ath-m50 monitors that are obviously more capable.

So... Anyone moved on from BQEYZ KC2 to Hexa? Is it a night and day difference or just a minor evolutionary improvement?

Update: I prefer a neutral sound signature, accurate bass, details, clarity and body. Mostly listening to classical, jazz, vocal.

Thank you everyone who responded.

Just placed an order for KZ PR3 @£33 from Aliexpress. Based on reviews it should be a horribly tuned 13.2mm planar with crazy amount details and an open and airy sound,. I hope there will be a decent chance of being able to tame it with PEQ.

I've never listened to planars before, so why not? After all it's cheaper than a family cinema ticket, and I will surely have more fun PEQ-ing it than trying not to fall asleep while my kids are enjoying yet another marvel from Marvels.

Maybe will even post a review or at least an answer to the ultimate question if it is any better than the KC2s.

 

[KinGensai]

That's an interesting choice after the discussion. Seems like you are going to need to hit 8k+ with a high shelf, that thing has way too much energy up there.

At least you are probably only going to be tuning down, that's better for fidelity than having to tune anything up.

 

[alexk0il]

That's an interesting choice after the discussion.

I know... Right?

To my defense I've spent hours of reading reviews and listening to sound tests of Hexa, Nova, Blessing2, Variations, Zeros, S12, P1, Timless, etc. As a result my mindset has switched from getting IEMs to enjoy listening to getting an IEM to enjoy tuning and then either keeping it or selling it on ebay. . As I wrote, it's cheaper than cinema tickets for my family.

Also to my defense, I shouldn't be hearing frequencies above 12kHz at my age, plus I hope foam tips to help in that respect too.

Seems like you are going to need to hit 8k+ with a high shelf, that thing has way too much energy up there.
At least you are probably only going to be tuning down, that's better for fidelity than having to tune anything up.

Surprisingly it's the bass than need to be tamed by 9db.

Anyway, this doesn't look awful, or does it? Not sure how Poweramp EQ will cope with 13 filters though.

 

[KinGensai]

I know... Right?

To my defense I've spent hours of reading reviews and listening to sound tests of Hexa, Nova, Blessing2, Variations, S12, P1, Timless, etc. As a result my mindset has switched from getting IEMs to enjoy listening to getting an IEM to enjoy tuning and then either keeping it or selling it on ebay. . As I wrote, it's cheaper than cinema tickets for my family.

Also to my defense, I shouldn't be hearing frequencies above 12kHz at my age, plus I hope foam tips to help in that respect too.


Surprisingly it's the bass than need to be tamed by 9db.

Anyway, this doesn't look awful, or does it? Not sure how Poweramp EQ will cope with 13 filters though.

Wow, that's a heavy downtuning of bass lol. Some players support up to 20 bands (Neutron MP), don't know if poweramp's PEQ supports that many. I use UAPP right now to fix my V60's weird filter issue, and toneboosters only allows 10, but that's plenty IMO.

Does that sound neutral to you? IEMs lack kinetic energy compared to over ear headphones, so generally more bass is needed to sound closer to neutral for people within two standard deviations of Harman neutral.

Not hearing above 12k does explain that a bit though, a lot of spatial cues and details live in that area so lower bass tuning would make sense to compensate by raising the pinna gain response and lower treble for better detail presentation. If that's your hearing limit, you could skip those last two filters and apply a blanket high shelf above 8k to address possible IMD artifacts below.

The autoEQ option is convenient at first, but it's better to learn how to use EQ by ear so you can account for your unique HRTF and treble phase cancellation profile. Those target profiles are all based on the reviewers' preferences, which can be useful to you if you learn what they mean or if their preferences match yours closely. Just remember that those measurement couplers are not accurate at capturing treble response past 10k because of phase cancellation caused by material resonance and reflections.

 

[alexk0il]

Wow, that's a heavy downtuning of bass lol. Some players support up to 20 bands (Neutron MP), don't know if poweramp's PEQ supports that many. I use UAPP right now to fix my V60's weird filter issue, and toneboosters only allows 10, but that's plenty IMO.

Does that sound neutral to you? IEMs lack kinetic energy compared to over ear headphones, so generally more bass is needed to sound closer to neutral for people within two standard deviations of Harman neutral.

I normally use Crinacle neutral curve as a starting point for tuning, don't deviate a lot from it. Interesting though, I don't feel an urgent need to do any tuning with M50, though now I am curious how can they sound after a PEQ

Not hearing above 12k does explain that a bit though, a lot of spatial cues and details live in that area so lower bass tuning would make sense to compensate by raising the pinna gain response and lower treble for better detail presentation. If that's your hearing limit, you could skip those last two filters and apply a blanket high shelf above 8k to address possible IMD artifacts below.

Thanks, it makes sense and explains a lot. I knew I was at the right place to ask questions.

 

[KinGensai]

I normally use Crinacle neutral curve as a starting point for tuning, don't deviate a lot from it. Interesting though, I don't feel an urgent need to do any tuning with M50, though now I am curious how can they sound after a PEQ

Oh, you might want to put the bass back up if crin's target is your default. He listens to his gear at really low levels IIRC though, so if that's how he judges stuff, Fletcher-Munson dictates you want a bit less bass to match the loudness he's hearing.

Thanks, it makes sense and explains a lot. I knew I was at the right place to ask questions.

I'll help however I can. I was lost when I started buying IEMs 2 years ago, I have learned a lot since then, so I'm down to pass along anything I know that might be useful.

 

[alexk0il]

Oh, you might want to put the bass back up if crin's target is your default. He listens to his gear at really low levels IIRC though, so if that's how he judges stuff, Fletcher-Munson dictates you want a bit less bass to match the loudness he's hearing.

Wasn't there a time when all audiophile equipment was supposed to have the Loudness button that created a U-shape profile specifically for low volumes?

The Crinacle guy, yeah... Seems to be knowledgeable, polite and arrogant at the same time, a perfect combination for being a successful influencer. Yet, his preference of using flat profiles for low volumes isn't intuitive. He definitely got my attention

 

[KinGensai]

Wasn't there a time when all audiophile equipment was supposed to have the Loudness button that created a U-shape profile specifically for low volumes?

The Crinacle guy, yeah... Seems to be knowledgeable, polite and arrogant at the same time, a perfect combination for being a successful influencer. Yet, his preference of using flat profiles for low volumes isn't intuitive. He definitely got my attention

He has his flat target response, but most of his collabs target Harman IE tuning instead of his target, which is fine I guess, but a bit weird for a collab.

I like jazz with some sub bass bias, especially on classic masterings because they tend to be so bass light and have a bit too much mid bass bias. Modern masters and remasters are better on that front thankfully.


A really nice example of modern mastering in jazz that presents the bass player clearly alongside the other instruments. One of my favorite albums lately, we need more zac zinger out there.